Swhack! 26 March 2006
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01:07:28 <wallrazer> wazzup...
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01:50:42 <kpreid> 'The various guides for the use of the International System of Units do not explicitly forbid the elision of the final "o" of some SI prefixes, although there is nothing in them to suggest that it is allowable, either. As a result, one is just about as likely to see "kilohm", "kiloohm" and even "kilo-ohm",' -- Wikipedia
01:50:56 <kpreid> suddenly I wish google let me search for "kiloöhm"
01:51:14 <bjoern_> .g kiloöhm
01:51:17 <phenny> kiloöhm: http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Dictionary/Dictionary-K.htm
01:51:34 <kpreid> distinctly from "kiloohm", I mean
01:51:53 <bjoern_> .g kiloöhm -kiloohm
01:51:56 <phenny> kiloöhm -kiloohm: sorry, no results were found.
01:51:59 <bjoern_> pity.
01:52:38 <kpreid> are there any languages in which O and Ö Are Different Letters, so the local google just might respect that?
01:52:40 <bjoern_> I get like 380000 hits for my asciified name and 68000 for the correct spelling...
01:53:08 <bjoern_> I doubt google respects any such locals
01:53:14 <bjoern_> it doesn't do it for my name at least
01:53:33 <bjoern_> it also ignores other language settings, etc
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02:41:38 <BigJibby> Monty, do I smell bad?
02:41:39 <Monty> amavisd is in value."
02:41:49 <nsh> .swhack amavisd
02:41:50 JibberJim (n=none@port0138-aed-adsl.cwjamaica.com) has joined #swhack
02:41:59 <BigJibby> .w amavisd
02:42:01 <phenny> I couldn't find 'amavisd' in WordNet.
02:42:10 <phenny> nsh: No results for "amavisd".
02:42:16 <nsh> .gc amavisd
02:42:19 <phenny> amavisd: 1,190,000
02:42:32 <nsh> @google define amavisd
02:42:36 <supybot> nsh: Search took 0.49 seconds: Dual-instance sendmail with amavisd -new ...: <http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/README.sendmail-dual.txt>; This file README.performance is part of the amavisd -new ...: <http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/README.performance>; Classnotes: UNIX03/Integrating Sophie With Amavisd: <http://www.geekcomix.com/cgi- (1 more message)
02:42:47 <nsh> @google define:amavisd
02:42:51 <supybot> nsh: No matches found. (Search took 0.01 seconds)
02:43:01 <BigJibby> @mroe
02:43:03 <supybot> BigJibby: Error: "mroe" is not a valid command.
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03:13:13 <BigJibby> eel: randSwhack()
03:13:23 <eel> # value: "<kandinski> they would not necesarily tag the same images [http://swhack.com/logs/2004-07-18#T23-08-17]"
03:16:44 <BigJibby> this is a great site: http://www.goer.org/HTML/examples/htmlhorror1.html
03:17:39 <bjoern_> evan is a nice guy, buy him a G5.
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03:29:21 <bjoern_> .calc 11*1.5
03:29:24 <phenny> 11 * 1.5 = 16.5
03:30:31 <kpreid> .calc 1000000000 * .000000001
03:30:34 <phenny> 1 000 000 000 * .000000001 = 1
03:31:47 <JibberJim> .calc 1*1*1*1*1*1**1
03:31:50 <phenny> 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 * 1 * (1 ** 1) = 1
03:32:07 <JibberJim> hey, why'd you put those brackets in phenny?
03:32:11 <yoz> .calc 1/0
03:32:14 <phenny> yoz: Sorry, no result.
03:32:36 <bjoern_> to clarify associativity rules?
03:33:02 <BigJibby> .calc 1 * 7% + 80% - 34 pounds
03:33:05 <phenny> BigJibby: Sorry, no result.
03:33:15 <JibberJim> well yeah, but I'm not stupid, I know the rules, I just feel insulted
03:33:38 <bjoern_> h4x0r them.
03:34:45 <kpreid> .origin wallrazer
03:35:01 <phenny> First saw wallrazer on #swhack at 2006-03-24 16:14:42, saying 'grr'
03:35:17 <wallrazer> i'm like a supahero
03:35:19 <bjoern_> .origin bjoern
03:35:27 <phenny> First saw bjoern_ on #swhack at 2004-04-14 07:05:42, who then first said 'recode latin1..dump (GNU recode)'
03:35:37 <bjoern_> .origin bjoern_
03:35:38 <kpreid> .origin ows
03:35:42 <wallrazer> New marvel origins: WallRAZER
03:35:46 <phenny> First saw bjoern_ on #swhack at 2004-04-14 07:05:42, who then first said 'recode latin1..dump (GNU recode)'
03:35:47 <phenny> First saw ows on #swhack at 2004-09-19 22:00:16, who then first said 'Hi! anyone knows a channel to discuss middleware topics (like corba, java rmi...)?'
03:35:54 <kpreid> .origin Julio
03:36:01 <phenny> First saw Julio on #swhack at 2004-04-21 04:24:03, who then first said '[\x02Ash\x0f]\x0f'
03:36:11 <BigJibby> .origin BigJibby
03:36:17 <bjoern_> .origin Monty
03:36:18 <Monty> uhm.. sbp
03:36:22 <wallrazer> .origin redmonk
03:36:24 <phenny> First saw Monty on #swhack at 2004-04-05 22:15:49, saying 'jibble'
03:36:29 <phenny> First saw redmonk on #swhack at 2002-02-19 02:12:15, who then first said "hi all - what's the party for?"
03:36:31 <Monty> .w net 1. long are you hanle them to adjust the wiki. Just had two and even if you're into that misses it easy for giving away
03:36:31 <phenny> Can't find info about BigJibby *.
03:36:33 <phenny> Monty: Words must match the regexp ^[A-Za-z0-9' -]+$
03:36:34 <Monty> they're great
03:36:36 <JibberJim> .origin JibberJim
03:36:37 <wallrazer> 2002!
03:36:39 <wallrazer> i rule
03:36:42 <phenny> First saw JibberJim on #swhack at 2002-06-14 10:32:03, who then first said 'JibberJim has left #swhack'
03:37:07 <bjoern_> heh
03:37:09 <JibberJim> you first saw me leaving phenny?
03:37:29 <BigJibby> I don't exist :O
03:37:30 <JibberJim> oh I remember I snuck in the back door whilst she was out front
03:37:31 <wallrazer> jibberjim, the only member of swhack to leave before he arrived
03:37:45 <bjoern_> .origin bsh
03:37:49 <JibberJim> .origin raxor
03:37:55 <kpreid> .origin ChanServ
03:37:57 <phenny> First saw bsh on #swhack at 2004-10-10 06:12:37, who then first said 'karlcow did not...'
03:37:59 <phenny> First saw ChanServ on #swhack at 2001-07-25 20:43:27, saying 'Welcome to #sbp, the RDF, SW, and XHTML notepad'
03:38:01 <wallrazer> someone needs to create a timeline of when various nicks joined swhack
03:38:02 <phenny> First saw raxor on #swhack at 2005-03-23 21:03:31, who then first said 'hi Julie'
03:38:10 <wallrazer> .origina sbp
03:38:18 <wallrazer> .origin sbp
03:38:30 <bjoern_> .origin phenny
03:38:36 <phenny> First saw sbp on #swhack at 2001-07-25 20:43:34, saying 'Hey, hi loggy'
03:38:39 <phenny> First saw phenny on #swhack at 2004-05-03 16:10:18, who then first said 'hi, sbp'
03:38:46 <nsh> .origin nsh
03:39:06 <phenny> First saw sbp on #swhack at 2005-03-26 00:27:42, who then first said 'sbp :-)'
03:39:13 <bjoern_> do we have gzipped swhack logs somewhere?
03:39:18 <JibberJim> phenny spent at least 3 years without noticing herself?
03:39:26 <JibberJim> are we sure she's female?
03:39:36 <bjoern_> bots aren't born self-concious
03:39:42 <wallrazer> heh
03:39:58 <BigJibby> .origin universe
03:40:12 <phenny> Can't find info about universe*.
03:40:31 <kpreid> .origin q
03:40:34 <phenny> First saw sbp on #swhack at 2001-12-12 04:57:35, saying 'the attributions are marked up in "<cite>"... I\'m not all that bothered, because <q> and <cite> are so seriously and utterly fucked, no one cares about them anymore. Even WAI GL gave up'
03:40:53 <kpreid> "oops
03:40:55 <kpreid> "
03:41:35 <kpreid> phenny: tell sbp ".origin q" produces wrong results
03:41:36 <kpreid> phenny: tell sbp that perhaps only < with no preceding < should be matched
03:41:37 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
03:41:39 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when sbp is around. I'll have to use a pastebin, though, so your message may get lost.
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03:42:22 <BigJibby> .origin bigjibby
03:42:38 <phenny> First saw twe on #swhack at 2005-02-23 17:50:56, saying '14:42Z <bigjibby> tell twe to monty twe twe twe.'
03:42:39 <Monty> seventy-five? I say phone logs?
03:44:18 <BigJibby> .origin >
03:44:25 <phenny> First saw sbp on #swhack at 2001-07-27 23:22:29, saying '\\/:*?"<>|'
03:46:25 <BigJibby> .origin layer
03:46:34 <phenny> Can't find info about layer*.
03:49:40 <BigJibby> .origin supybot
03:49:42 <supybot> BigJibby: Error: ".origin" is not a valid command.
03:49:47 <phenny> First saw supybot^ on #swhack at 2004-02-09 20:47:29, who then first said "AaronSw: Error: 'google' is not a valid command."
03:50:30 <Ash> .origin Ash
03:50:35 <phenny> First saw Ash on #swhack at 2001-11-28 03:06:30, who then first said 'fwoosh!'
03:50:45 <Ash> ha
03:50:49 <Ash> .origin sbp
03:51:01 <Ash> .origin neo85
03:51:02 <phenny> IOError: [Errno socket error] (-2, 'Name or service not known') (file "/usr/lib/python2.4/httplib.py", line 610, in connect)
03:51:08 <phenny> First saw neo85 on #swhack at 2002-04-05 15:39:51, who then first said 'hey'
03:51:14 <bjoern_> .origin loggy_1
03:51:17 <phenny> First saw loggy_1 on #swhack at 2001-07-25 20:43:27, saying 'loggy_1 (sbp-logger@v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET) has joined #sbp'
03:53:44 <BigJibby> .origin *
03:53:55 <phenny> First saw sbp on #swhack at 2005-01-01 02:24:06, saying '21 >98 *7^>+\\-0|<*5 ^:+ 1pg15\\,:<'
03:54:08 <bjoern_> yeah, that sounds like him.
03:56:45 *** ogBigJibby is now known as BigJibby
03:56:55 <ogBigJibby> .origin ogBigJibby
03:57:04 <phenny> First saw ogBigJibby on #swhack at 2006-03-26 03:56:55, saying '.origin ogBigJibby'
03:57:09 <Ash> OMG RECURSION
03:58:22 <bjoern_> .origin XSLT
03:58:36 <phenny> Can't find info about XSLT*.
03:59:01 *** BigJibby is now known as ogBigJibby
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04:00:49 <JibberJim> "You cannot sell cigarettes to children, you cannot sell glue to children, but you can sell hardcore porn to children.
04:01:26 <bjoern_> lousy salesman
04:01:53 <JibberJim> yeah, even shite salesman round my way have no problems with the first one
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04:52:42 <BigJibby> Monty, what is the ultimate question?
04:52:43 <Monty> or just wrong results
04:52:58 <BigJibby> Monty, I see
04:53:01 <Monty> wankers's heatsink loves speeding outrage.
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05:18:45 <Monty> Thank goodness, jewel is back!
05:18:48 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
05:18:48 <Monty> eel!
05:19:13 <BigJibby> Monty, eel doesn't like you
05:19:15 <Monty> Adina's very surprised to install mc
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06:43:00 <sbp> phew, that was a lot of phenny fixes
06:43:13 <crschmidt> dja fix my tell
06:43:15 <phenny> crschmidt: 06:13Z <sbp> tell crschmidt thanks! fixed the -d description and uploaded a .tar.gz of the new version
06:43:22 <crschmidt> thansk
06:43:33 <crschmidt> drunk.
06:44:12 <bjoern_> good morning mr sbp!
06:44:14 <phenny> bjoern_: 06:29Z <sbp> tell bjoern_ I fixed the tell-on-part/quit problem, though to be quite honest I'm not entirely sure why it was happening (and I didn't look too deep yet). found an easy and obvious workaround, anyway
06:44:31 <bjoern_> heh
06:47:17 <sbp> 'morning crschmidt-drunk, bjoern_!
06:47:49 <sbp> for some reason phenny gets sent the PART command as a PART like 8 times and then as a PRIVMSG 2 times
06:47:55 <bjoern_> I'm in MEST now, hurray!
06:48:01 <sbp> not sure where the command is being munged; it totally shouldn't be
06:48:02 <sbp> MEST?
06:48:06 <bjoern_> .t MEST
06:48:08 <phenny> Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:45:17 MEST
06:48:10 <sbp> .g site:en.wikipedia.org MEST
06:48:13 <phenny> site:en.wikipedia.org MEST: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEST_(Scientology)
06:48:17 <bjoern_> heh
06:48:19 <sbp> OMG!
06:48:46 <sbp> C'EST LA MEST
06:48:57 <sbp> (Wikipedia sends me to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_Summer_Time)
06:49:02 <bjoern_> I'm also in matter, energy, space and time, it seems.
06:49:09 <sbp> yeah, I woke up this morning and I looked at my watch and it was like 5:50
06:49:15 <sbp> and I went to my computer and it said 6:50
06:49:18 <sbp> and I thought, wtf?
06:49:26 <sbp> way too early for BST already, surely?
06:49:32 <sbp> so I looked it up on Wikipedia
06:49:34 <bjoern_> well, it's a long way from the bed to the pc...
06:49:41 <sbp> -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Summer_Time
06:50:00 <sbp> and it is indeed today, of course, but then I didn't like the description about how to reverse the table of dates
06:50:12 <sbp> so I fixed that ("gah, that's annoying. oh wait, it's Wikipedia. FIXING IT")
06:50:25 <sbp> then I lamented the fact that BST comes so early and that it sucks so hard
06:50:42 <sbp> so I read about the planned reforms and found that most reform ideas are to have it permanently
06:50:47 <sbp> which seems so fucked up to me
06:50:49 <sbp> but anyway
06:50:58 <sbp> long way from the bed to the pc: yeah...
06:51:01 <sbp> I should get a laptop
06:51:11 <bjoern_> or some implants
06:51:37 <bjoern_> some neuron2irc gateway
06:52:26 <bjoern_> "Usage: CEST begins in in 1 days" -- Wikipedia
06:53:07 <bjoern_> {{user:Ed Poor/event|3|26|CEST begins in|Current time: {{utc|2}}}}
06:53:08 <bjoern_> wtf?
06:53:31 <sbp> 03:21:13 <AaronSw> cool, phones suck
06:53:32 <sbp> 03:21:22 <Morbus> yeah, man, they do. flipping piss me off.
06:53:36 <sbp> - http://swhack.com/logs/2001-08-31#T03-21-13
06:53:47 <sbp> Usage:? that's funny
06:53:56 <sbp> ./CEST.py
06:54:13 <bjoern_> phenny: "MEST ist eine Punkband, welche von den Cousins Tony (* 20. Juni 1980) und Matt Lovato 1996 zusammen mit Tonys Bruder Steve in Chicago gegruendet wurde."?
06:54:16 <phenny> bjoern_: "MEST is a Punkband, which by the cousins Tony (* 20 June 1980) andmatt Lovato were created 1996 together with Tonys brother Steve inChicago." (de)
06:54:40 <bjoern_> and CEST redirects to Sommerzeit
06:55:10 <sbp> Sommerzeit?
06:56:11 Uviz (n=vee@user-11214v5.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
06:57:10 * sbp skims http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_France
06:57:14 <sbp> odd terminology
06:57:23 <sbp> .ety metropolitan
06:57:26 <phenny> "1432, as a noun, 'bishop having oversight of other bishops,' from L.L. metropolitanus, from Gk. metropolis 'mother city' (from which others have been colonized), from meter 'mother' + polis 'city' (see policy (1))." - http://etymonline.com/?term=metropolitan
06:57:47 <sbp> should be mother- -land really
06:57:54 <sbp> what's land in Latin?
06:58:14 bjoern_h (n=bjoern@dslb-084-057-254-251.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
06:58:17 <sbp> "solum, terra, ager"
06:58:29 <sbp> metroterra? metrosolum?
06:59:06 <bjoern_h> phenny: "Die Sommerzeit ist die im Sommerhalbjahr meist um eine Stunde vorgestellte Uhrzeit einer Zeitzone."?
06:59:10 <phenny> bjoern_h: "The summer time is in the summer half-year usually around one hour thepresented time of a time belt." (de)
06:59:22 <sbp> phenny: ask jilldaw which out of solum, terra, and ager is most appropriate for land in the sense of France (minus its colonies) being a land
06:59:24 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when jilldaw is around.
06:59:34 jewel has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:59:37 <sbp> ah, summer time. as in zeitgeist
06:59:40 <sbp> .ety zeitgeist
06:59:43 <phenny> "1848, from Ger. Zeitgeist, lit. 'spirit of the age,' from Zeit 'time' (see tide) + Geist 'spirit' (see ghost)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=zeitgeist
06:59:59 <sbp> thanks
07:00:57 <bjoern_h> "On that subject, for text programming, the use of recursion is almost always the sign of an inexperienced or poor programmer. The worst offender
07:00:57 <bjoern_h> in this is the Java REGEX package, which is almost useless for large document text processing, because of stack growth in some pathological
07:00:57 <bjoern_h> cases with some harmless-looking regular expressions." -- Rick Jelliffe on xml-dev
07:01:00 <bjoern_h> Java is the worst!
07:01:28 <sbp> oh, bjoern_h, did you see my superlarge regexp?
07:01:43 <bjoern_h> > 16K?
07:01:54 <bjoern_h> but no, don't think so
07:02:02 <sbp> http://inamidst.com/stuff/unidata/letters.py.gz
07:02:06 <sbp> yeah, it's bigger than 16K
07:02:07 <bjoern_h> is it a wiki-in-a-regex?
07:02:12 <sbp> that'd be great
07:02:38 <sbp> it's a regexp of all the letters (L* general category classes) in Unicode
07:02:58 <bjoern_h> Ah, like \p{IsLetter}
07:03:12 <sbp> grumble
07:04:01 <bjoern_h> wouldn't it be better to use ranges?
07:04:15 madewokherd has quit ("restarting client to test some crazy hack")
07:04:23 <sbp> yep, but I couldn't be bothered since I'm not actually using it yet
07:04:42 <sbp> my aim is to make a vocabulary sucking script that handles Unicode
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07:04:56 <sbp> I figured that letter ranges would be Good Enough in most cases
07:05:14 <bjoern_h> does python support \x{20ac} style escapes?
07:05:19 <bjoern_h> in regexps?
07:05:21 <sbp> even with ranges, it'll still be pretty significant... well, let's see...
07:05:26 <sbp> dunno. not that I know of. checking
07:05:40 <bjoern_h> if, it's be easy to pass it to regex-opt...
07:05:46 <bjoern_h> actually, let's do that
07:05:47 <sbp> sre_constants.error: bogus escape: '\\x'
07:11:15 <bjoern_h> try http://paste.lisp.org/display/18288
07:11:49 <bjoern_h> % perl -e "print '[';for (0..0x10ffff) {next unless chr =~ /\p{Letter}/;printf '\\x{%x}', $_;}print ']';" | regex-opt
07:11:56 <bjoern_h> with my modified regex-opt...
07:12:41 oxblood has quit (Connection timed out)
07:12:54 <bjoern_h> I started with a one liner but I had to kill it after consuming 200 MB memory...
07:13:21 bjoern_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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07:14:51 <bjoern_h> the input is > 750k fwiw...
07:19:57 <bjoern_h> Monty, countdown
07:19:57 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 2, 2, 8, 10, 3. Your target is 151. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
07:20:13 <bjoern_h> Monty, calc 2*75 + 3 - 2
07:20:14 <Monty> bjoern_h: 151
07:20:27 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
07:20:28 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 13 milliseconds. I found all 286 solutions in about 241 milliseconds.
07:20:30 <Monty> ibot 75*2 + 8 - 10 + 3
07:20:53 <sbp> bjoern_h: ha, awesome
07:21:07 *** bjoern_ is now known as bjoern_h
07:21:10 <sbp> that's pretty short
07:35:38 <Ash> SHORT
07:36:46 <lisppaste2> sbp pasted "All Letters" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/18290
07:36:56 <sbp> bjoern_: I get different output, for some reason
07:37:20 <sbp> e.g. you have \xF8-\x{241} but I have \xf8-\u0220\u0222-\u0233\u0250-\u02ad
07:38:04 <sbp> .cp ^0234
07:38:07 <phenny> 0234: LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH CURL (ȴ)
07:38:24 <sbp> huh, how odd
07:39:14 <sbp> >>> unicodedata.category(u'\u0234')
07:39:14 <sbp> 'Cn'
07:39:20 <sbp> but...
07:39:21 <sbp> 0234;LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH CURL;Ll;0;L;;;;;N;;;;;
07:39:27 * sbp kicks unicodedata
07:49:10 <bjoern_> (there might be all sorts of things wrong with my expr...)
07:53:23 <sbp> bjoern_: what would summer time madness be in German? could a single compound noun be made from it? Sommerzeitverrücktheit?
07:53:42 <sbp> .gc Sommerzeitverrücktheit
07:53:45 <phenny> Sommerzeitverrücktheit: 0
07:53:51 <bjoern_> I think Wahnsinn is closer
07:53:58 <bjoern_> @translate english to german madness
07:54:00 <supybot> bjoern_: Verrücktheit
07:54:06 <bjoern_> silly bot
07:54:13 <sbp> hehe
07:54:15 <bjoern_> .gc Sommerzeitwahnsinn
07:54:19 <phenny> Sommerzeitwahnsinn: 0
07:54:26 <sbp> I'll use that anyway
07:54:29 <bjoern_> .gc Sommerzeits-wahnsinn
07:54:32 <phenny> Sommerzeits-wahnsinn: 0
07:54:37 <bjoern_> oh well
07:54:47 <sbp> .gc "Sommerzeit wahnsinn"
07:54:50 <phenny> "Sommerzeit wahnsinn": 3
07:54:56 <sbp> .gc "Sommerzeit verrücktheit"
07:54:59 <phenny> "Sommerzeit verrücktheit": 0
07:55:10 <sbp> Sommerzeitwahnsinn it is
07:55:12 <sbp> ta
07:57:53 <bjoern_> .gc "Sommerzeit Unsinn"
07:57:56 <phenny> "Sommerzeit Unsinn": 9
07:57:59 <bjoern_> .gc "Sommerzeit Irrsinn"
07:58:02 <phenny> "Sommerzeit Irrsinn": 1
07:58:16 <bjoern_> .gc "Sommerzeit Mist"
07:58:19 <bjoern_> .gc "Sommerzeit Quatsch"
07:58:19 <phenny> "Sommerzeit Mist": 27
07:58:22 <phenny> "Sommerzeit Quatsch": 5
08:39:13 *** sbp changed the topic to: "The Tortoise seems to be "logically insane"."
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10:06:50 <sbp> $ wc wikipedia-words
10:06:50 <sbp> 2338035 2338035 26364166 wikipedia-words
10:07:29 bjoern_ has quit ("Quit")
10:09:09 <KragenSitaker> does that mean there are 2 338 035 distinct words in the en.wikipedia.org current versions of articles?
10:10:29 <sbp> KragenSitaker: yes, from the enwiki-20060208-pages-articles.xml.bz2 dump; where a word is defined as matching the regular expression r"(?<!')\b[A-Za-z](?:[A-Za-z'-]*[A-Za-z])?\b" and not containing either "--" or "''" as a sequence
10:10:52 <sbp> also, all capitalised words that also appear as lower case were dropped
10:10:54 <KragenSitaker> how many of them occur only once?
10:11:16 <sbp> I discarded frequency data, though I'm thinking about doing more stuff along those lines
10:11:20 <KragenSitaker> i did a similar exercise for the British National Corpus and came up with http://pobox.com/~kragen/sw/wordlist
10:11:31 <sbp> the script only took one and a half hours to get the list, which wasn't too bad
10:11:40 <sbp> oh, cool
10:11:50 <KragenSitaker> well, i'm thinking that probably most of those 2 million words are misspellings of real words
10:12:12 <sbp> oh, there's a lot of garbage in there that doesn't even come under misspellings
10:12:18 <KragenSitaker> i discarded words that occurred fewer than 5 times, and still a substantial number of the words in that list were misspellings
10:12:23 <sbp> I didn't expect it to be high quality, just fairly exhaustive :-)
10:12:26 <KragenSitaker> heh
10:12:28 <KragenSitaker> what for?
10:13:01 <KragenSitaker> (my reason was to get data for evaluating the quality of input methods based on some primitive models of how long it would take people to type the British National Corpus using different input methods)
10:13:33 <sbp> well, I have another wordlist which contains data that I got from various smaller wordlists that I found on the web, and I've often found it useful for looking up various bits of miscellaneous Swhackish craziness
10:15:29 <KragenSitaker> my reason for using the BNC was that it consisted of a higher fraction of actual words than most web data sources
10:17:14 <sbp> how big is the BNC?
10:17:18 <KragenSitaker> i forget
10:17:20 <KragenSitaker> megs
10:17:23 <KragenSitaker> iirc
10:23:19 tav (n=tav@82.153.118.121) has joined #swhack
10:38:30 <KragenSitaker> i am experientially discovering the miracle of mass production
10:38:45 <KragenSitaker> the scribe can in theory take a double-page spread photo roughly every 6 seconds
10:38:57 <KragenSitaker> or 600 pages an hour
10:39:33 <sbp> that's the scanner you're using for the OED project/
10:39:35 <sbp> s!/!?!
10:39:51 <sbp> I should just have an autocorrect filter for /$ -> ?
10:39:57 <KragenSitaker> yeah
10:40:04 <KragenSitaker> it's the internet archive's scanner
10:40:05 <sbp> not to mention #$ -> None
10:40:09 <sbp> aha
10:40:40 <KragenSitaker> i'm now roughly achieving that except that it takes me a fair bit of time to come up to speed when i start on each new session
10:41:25 <est> :)
10:42:17 <KragenSitaker> ok, caffeine consumption complete. back to the grindstone for 20 more minutes before i go home to sleep
10:46:59 <jewel> what are you scanning?
10:51:13 <sbp> he's scanning the OED, first edition
10:57:04 <tav> hey
10:57:13 <tav> sorry to interrupt guys
10:57:39 <tav> but, i'm in urgent need of a good css dude for green.tv -- this broadband tv channel for environmental issues that we are doing
10:58:18 <tav> it's rather late in the day, but need to go for testing in 24 hours and need someone to make it all css happy ;p
10:58:36 <tav> i can pay £400 for the days work
10:58:39 <tav> anyone interested?
11:13:17 <sbp> tav: espnow.com seems to be down
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11:51:26 <Monty> hi JibberJim
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12:33:11 <sbp> okay, this is odd
12:33:21 <sbp> zsh allows you to alias commands to built in keywords
12:33:29 <sbp> so you can do alias in="something"
12:33:38 <sbp> then case $var in ... esac doesn't work
12:33:45 <sbp> but quoting zshall:
12:33:48 <sbp> If the -g flag is present, define a global
12:33:48 <sbp> alias; global aliases are expanded even if they do not
12:33:48 <sbp> occur in command position.
12:33:53 <sbp> and I'm just using alias
12:39:48 <sbp> [13:34] <sbp> I just noticed that it's possible to do something like: alias in="test"
12:39:48 <sbp> [13:35] <sbp> which is fine, but then case $var in ... esac breaks because in gets expanded to test
12:39:48 <sbp> [13:35] <sbp> which seems a little absurd; I'm not using alias -g, even
12:39:54 <sbp> [13:35] <sbp> using zsh 4.2.6. does anybody know if this is a bug or a feature, or what?
12:39:54 <sbp> [13:36] <sbp> (as I say, the only thing I've been able to find in man zshall is that this behaviour shouldn't happen without alias -g, so I'm inclined to think it's a bug but...)
12:39:56 <sbp> - #zsh
12:39:59 <tav> hmz
12:40:17 <sbp> no reply yet, but there are just over half the users in there as there are in #swhack :-)
12:44:04 <nsh> is twe not coming back?
12:44:10 <nsh> crschmidt, splainage
12:44:48 <sbp> jcowan grumbled about twe, so crschmidt slit twe's throat
12:45:14 <sbp> I'm not sure how bots are supposed to recover from crschmidt slitting their throats
12:45:25 * nsh grumbles about jcowan
12:54:53 *** mumbles-out is now known as mumbles
12:59:10 <sbp> zsh user confirms it looks like a bug, and suggested using the case $var { ... } syntax
13:02:28 <nsh> sbp broke teh zanzibar shell!
13:05:56 <kpreid> .origin q
13:05:58 <phenny> kpreid: 06:12Z <sbp> tell kpreid the [on] mistake has been fixed, thanks (http://swhack.com/logs/2006-03-25#T13-01-03)
13:06:00 <phenny> First saw quasi on #swhack at 2002-04-26 15:14:53, who then first said 'Morbus!'
13:06:02 <phenny> kpreid: 06:39Z <sbp> tell kpreid that .origin is now fixed. thanks!
13:06:41 <kpreid> whee
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13:27:33 * sbp writes to zsh-users about the alias behaviour
13:27:34 <sbp> http://www.zsh.org/mla/users/2006/msg00278.html
13:29:03 <kpreid> .ety breakfast
13:29:07 <phenny> "1463, from break (v.) + fast (n.)." - http://etymonline.com/?term=breakfast
13:29:38 <kpreid> .compare breakfast break-fast
13:29:41 <phenny> breakfast (296,000,000), break-fast (296,000,000)
13:29:49 <kpreid> uh...
13:30:01 <sbp> hmm
13:30:20 <sbp> .compare breakfast "break-fast" break-fast [break fast]
13:30:24 <phenny> breakfast (296,000,000), break-fast (296,000,000), break fast (134,000,000), "break-fast" (361,000)
13:30:29 <kpreid> .compare breakfast +break-fast
13:30:32 <phenny> breakfast (296,000,000), +break-fast (361,000)
13:30:41 <kpreid> google's gotten more enthusiastic in use of its spelling corrector
13:30:47 <sbp> aye...
13:31:37 <kpreid> how about a phenny command to return the excerpt from the first google result for a query?
13:31:59 <sbp> good idea. what name for the command?
13:32:09 <sbp> I was thinking of one to do a similar thing for Wikipedia too
13:32:46 <kpreid> .excerpt, of course
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13:47:24 <kpreid> did you see what I said about "kiloöhm" yesterday?
13:47:51 <kpreid> http://swhack.com/logs/2006-03-26#T01-50-42
13:48:37 <sbp> hmm, I did see the line about capital O vs. O:, but not the rest
13:49:04 <sbp> .cp small.*o with di
13:49:07 <phenny> 00F6: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (ö)
13:49:10 <phenny> 022B: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON (ȫ)
13:49:13 <phenny> 04E7: CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (ӧ) [...]
13:49:29 <sbp> .compare kiloöhm +kiloöhm +"kiloöhm"
13:49:33 <phenny> kiloöhm (29,100), +kiloöhm (0), +"kiloöhm" (0)
13:49:59 <sbp> ...
13:50:06 <sbp> bug there, I think
13:50:15 <sbp> I get the same result in-browser too
13:50:26 <kpreid> you know, I didn't think of that
13:50:29 <kpreid> .compare +coöperate +cooperate
13:50:32 <phenny> +cooperate (82,400,000), +coöperate (28,900)
13:50:35 <kpreid> not-bug
13:50:47 <kpreid> loggy, pointer?
13:51:16 <sbp> it's not a bug if there are zero results for "kiloöhm" literally, true
13:51:20 <kpreid> loggy: pointer?
13:51:20 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2006-03-26#T13-51-20
13:51:42 <sbp> .compare coöperate +coöperate "coöperate" +"coöperate"
13:51:46 <phenny> coöperate (82,500,000), +coöperate (28,900), +"coöperate" (28,900), "coöperate" (28,900)
13:51:53 <kpreid> will phenny ignore trailing _ on nicks to deliver messages to?
13:53:09 <kpreid> phenny: tell bjoern_ about http://swhack.com/logs/2006-03-26#T13-51-20
13:53:11 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when bjoern_ is around.
13:54:02 <kpreid> (he doesn't seem to use un-_ed form, according to </tail/bjoern%3E>)
13:57:26 <sbp> she used to, but I think I inadvertantly "fixed" that a while ago
13:57:35 <sbp> phenny: tell sbp_ boing
13:57:38 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when sbp_ is around.
13:57:39 *** sbp_ is now known as sbp
13:57:50 *** sbp is now known as sbp_
13:57:52 <sbp> lalala
13:58:17 <sbp> she doesn't do it on nickchange anymore either
13:58:23 *** sbp_ is now known as sbp
13:58:25 <sbp_> lalala
13:58:28 <phenny> sbp_: 13:54Z <sbp> tell sbp_ boing
13:58:44 *** sbp is now known as sbp_
13:59:38 <nsh> do the dance, do the chanserv dance
13:59:47 <sbp> heh, heh
14:00:12 * nsh blinks, did it set you +v twice in a row?
14:00:33 <kpreid> hm. on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT subject:
14:00:49 <kpreid> are there any data formats which are harder to generate than to parse?
14:01:45 <sbp> nsh: once because I identified, once because I triggered it to test phenny
14:02:17 <sbp> kpreid: not a one that I can think of
14:03:43 <sbp> .wikipedia Something
14:03:46 <phenny> "'Something' is a song written by George Harrison, originally released on last album to be recorded by The Beatles, Abbey Road by Apple Records." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something
14:03:54 <sbp> .wik Abbey Road
14:03:57 <phenny> NameError: global name 'word' is not defined (file "/home/sbp/phenny/modules/wikipedia.py", line 62, in f_wikipedia)
14:04:01 <sbp> whoops
14:04:24 <kpreid> yesterday I edited the second Wikipedia article since I got this IP address
14:04:26 <sbp> .wik Abbey_Road
14:04:29 <phenny> "Abbey Road can refer to:" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Road
14:04:33 <sbp> heh
14:04:38 <sbp> .wik Abbey_Road_(album)
14:04:41 <phenny> "Abbey Road was the last album recorded by The Beatles, although it was released second-to-last, on September 26, 1969 in the UK and October 1, 1969 in the US." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Road_%28album%29
14:04:46 <kpreid> .wik Aerogel
14:04:49 <phenny> "Aerogel is a solid-state substance similar to gel where the liquid component is replaced with gas." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel
14:06:26 <sbp> .wik Wikipedia
14:06:29 <phenny> "" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
14:06:37 <sbp> how zen
14:07:06 * sbp fixes...
14:08:04 <kpreid> .wik ipedia
14:08:06 <phenny> NameError: global name 'word' is not defined (file "/home/sbp/phenny/modules/wikipedia.py", line 62, in f_wikipedia)
14:09:18 <kpreid> reloading Special:Recentchanges is quite something
14:09:32 <kpreid> new changes every second
14:09:52 <kpreid> I wonder if there's any other wiki that has that much activity
14:12:31 <sbp> there was a channel once that had a Wikipedia bot on it
14:12:39 <sbp> emitting every change in real time
14:12:44 <sbp> it was scary; and that was years ago
14:12:53 <sbp> it was about one per second then
14:15:27 <kpreid> I see that it doesn't exist any more
14:15:34 <kpreid> (it was there when I joined freenode)
14:15:54 <sbp> .wik Wikipedia
14:15:57 <sbp> ah
14:15:58 <phenny> "Wikipedia (IPA: [/ˌwɪkiˈpiːdi.ə/] or [/ˌwiki-/]), 'The Free Encyclopedia', is a website that hosts a multilingual free-content knowledge database that is editable by anyone." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
14:16:21 <sbp> (the problem was that there's a <p><br /></p> on that page
14:16:25 <sbp> ...)
14:16:34 <kpreid> ew
14:16:44 <jewel> the other day I tried to imagine what it would sould like if you could hear all the conservations going on around the world
14:17:47 <crschmidt> I don't have any particular plan to bring back twe, no
14:18:05 <sbp> .wik George_W._Bush
14:18:09 <phenny> "George Walker Bush (born July 6, 1946) is the 43rd and current President of the United States and former Governor of Texas." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
14:18:21 <sbp> .wik Texas
14:18:24 <phenny> "John Cornyn (R)" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas
14:18:26 <kpreid> .wik Abbey Road
14:18:28 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Abbey Road".
14:18:34 <kpreid> okay, please respect their redirects
14:19:09 <kpreid> loading /wiki/Abbey%20Road will give you a http redirect to Abbey_Road, so you don't need to implement understanding of ' '->'_' yourself
14:19:35 <sbp> please be patient
14:19:47 <sbp> I'm also going to add searching for phrases that aren't found
14:20:09 <sbp> just debugging this first stage. the Texas problem is that there's a <p> in a table which is then floated right. sigh
14:21:38 <kpreid> er, sorry ,that was ecessive grumpiness
14:22:19 <sbp> no probs
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14:27:03 <kpreid> gigamonkey: #swig is probably more relevant
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14:30:16 <sbp> .wik Texas
14:30:19 <phenny> "Texas is a state in the South and Southwest regions of the United States." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas
14:30:20 <sbp> okay, now we're getting somewhere
14:30:54 <sbp> doesn't work on disambiguation pages very well
14:30:55 <sbp> e.g.
14:30:58 <sbp> .wik Sovereign
14:31:02 <phenny> "Category: Disambiguation" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign
14:31:07 <sbp> should I make it grep out both li's and p's?
14:31:15 <uxia> hi all
14:31:39 <sbp> hi uxia, welcome to Swhack. this is a publically logged channel so be careful not to say anything that'll destroy your future potential political career
14:31:42 <sbp> more info at swhack.com
14:32:23 <uxia> ty sbp
14:34:13 <sbp> .wik Sovereign
14:34:16 <phenny> "The adjective sovereign is used to refer to the philosophical concept or state of sovereignty." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign
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14:35:27 <kpreid> .wik aardvark
14:35:29 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "aardvark".
14:35:35 <kpreid> .wik Aardvark
14:35:38 <phenny> "The Aardvark (Orycteropus afer) is a medium-sized mammal native to Africa." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aardvark
14:35:59 <kpreid> .wik Solid
14:36:01 <phenny> "A solid is a phase of matter characterized by resistance to deformation and to changes of volume." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid
14:36:14 <sbp> still doesn't work with all disambiguation pages
14:36:18 <sbp> .wik Fucking
14:36:20 <kpreid> .wik Ø
14:36:21 <phenny> "Fuck or Fucking can refer to:" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucking
14:36:22 <phenny> "'Ø', 'ø' is a vowel and a letter used in the Danish, Faroese and Norwegian alphabets." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98
14:36:23 <sbp> but I think that's okay for now
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15:09:54 wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
15:09:54 <Monty> lo wallrazer
15:15:15 wallrazer has quit ()
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15:19:06 <Monty> yo gigamonkey!
15:21:21 <gigamonkey> Hey Monty. Do I know you?
15:21:22 <Monty> Perhaps in your fantasies we know each other.
15:21:52 <kpreid> gigamonkey: #swig is probably more relevant
15:22:33 <gigamonkey> kpreid: ah. Semantic Web Interest Group?
15:22:35 <kpreid> the sw in swhack is not necessarily that SW
15:22:36 <kpreid> yes
15:23:08 <gigamonkey> Er, what is this "sw". Or should I be afraid to ask?
15:23:23 <kpreid> There are many answers.
15:23:29 <kpreid> All of them are correct.
15:24:53 wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
15:25:42 <sbp> technically, I think there's only one--according to AaronSw. it's the first third of the sound of you being struck by a cloo-by-four
15:26:05 <sbp> anyway, .wik is now all searchy
15:26:12 <sbp> .wik condiment
15:26:15 <phenny> "A condiment is a substance applied to food, usually in the form of a sauce, powder, or spread, to enhance or improve the flavor." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condiment
15:26:17 <sbp> .wik plain
15:26:20 <phenny> "In geography, a plain is a large area of land with relatively low relief." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain
15:26:22 <sbp> .wik rolls royce
15:26:27 <phenny> "Rolls-Royce is a set of companies derived from the British car and aero-engine manufacturing company founded by Henry Royce and C.S." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls_Royce
15:26:28 <sbp> .wik love hug
15:26:35 <phenny> "In Japan, love pillows are a subset of dakimakura (抱き枕, literally 'hugging pillow') and a type of inflatable sex toy." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_pillow
15:26:36 <sbp> .wik oingo boingo
15:26:39 <phenny> "Oingo Boingo was the band of composer Danny Elfman from the mid-1970s to October 31, 1995." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo
15:26:41 <kpreid> sbp: quit disputing my obscurity!
15:26:41 <sbp> .wik big fridge man
15:26:46 <phenny> "The requested page title was invalid, empty, an incorrectly linked inter-language or inter-wiki title, or contained illegal characters." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey%28ska%29
15:26:55 <sbp> your obscurity is so obscure that I don't even recognize it
15:27:22 * sbp looks into fixing [big fridge man]
15:27:38 <sbp> strange. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey%28ska%29 exists
15:27:48 <sbp> .wik Monkey%28ska%29
15:27:51 <phenny> "The requested page title was invalid, empty, an incorrectly linked inter-language or inter-wiki title, or contained illegal characters." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey%28ska%29
15:28:21 <kpreid> sbp: maybe you're double-escaping it somehow? or there's some IRI-related oddity?
15:28:28 <sbp> yeah, double-escaping
15:28:30 <sbp> just worked it out too
15:29:35 <sbp> .wik big fridge man
15:29:38 <phenny> "Formed in the Summer of 1996, Monkey enjoyed the success of the Third Wave Ska movement." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey(ska)
15:29:39 <sbp> .wik Monkey%28ska%29
15:29:42 <phenny> "Formed in the Summer of 1996, Monkey enjoyed the success of the Third Wave Ska movement." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey(ska)
15:29:45 <sbp> .wik super wave
15:29:59 <phenny> "This is a list of wave topics, by Wikipedia page." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wave_topics
15:30:02 <sbp> .wik coin magnet
15:30:05 <phenny> "A coin acceptor, also known as a coin mechanism or coin mech, is a device that recognises coins." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin_acceptor
15:30:13 <sbp> anyway, fun
15:30:14 <sbp> .wik fun
15:30:17 <phenny> "Recreation is the employment of time in a non-profitable way, in many ways also a therapeutic refreshment of one's body or mind." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun
15:31:10 wallrazer has quit ()
15:45:50 gigamonkey has parted #swhack ("No reason")
15:53:55 yoz (n=yoz@cowanfamily.plus.com) has joined #swhack
16:00:12 BeHappy_ has quit ("Leaving")
16:00:29 BeHappy_ (n=willy@host75-133.pool877.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
16:01:15 <KragenSitaker> .wik Seth Schoen
16:01:18 <phenny> "Seth David Schoen (born September 27, 1979) is staff technologist for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a technology civil rights organisation, and has been actively involved in discussing digital copyright law and encryption since the 1990s." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Schoen
16:02:06 <KragenSitaker> .wik Bill Gosper
16:02:09 <phenny> "R." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gosper
16:02:18 <KragenSitaker> Hmm, that's suboptimal.
16:02:49 <sbp> sentence parsing is hard. hang on a moment
16:02:53 <KragenSitaker> "R. William Gosper, Jr., known as Bill Gosper, is an American mathematician and programmer from Pennsauken, New Jersey."
16:03:56 <est_> he lives around here now though :)
16:04:00 *** est is now known as est_
16:04:32 <sbp> .wik Bill Gosper
16:04:35 <phenny> "R. William Gosper, Jr., known as Bill Gosper, is an American mathematician and programmer from Pennsauken, New Jersey." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gosper
16:05:13 <KragenSitaker> yeah, he does. there's a restaurant not far from your house where he eats regularly.
16:05:21 <chimezie> ooh, how long has phenny been equiped to handle Wikipedia queries?
16:05:57 <sbp> chimezie: since 14:03:43 UTC today
16:05:57 <chimezie> .wik MauMau
16:06:01 <phenny> "Mau Maus is the name of both a vicious street gangs in New York during the 1950s and a fictitious political hip-hop group in the Spike Lee film Bamboozled." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Maus
16:06:02 <chimezie> sweet
16:06:04 <sbp> (http://swhack.com/logs/2006-03-26#T14-03-43)
16:06:05 <KragenSitaker> it rocks
16:06:07 <chimezie> ya
16:06:10 <KragenSitaker> much more useful than .g
16:06:14 <sbp> aye
16:06:16 <chimezie> absolufriggin lutely
16:06:38 <sbp> still a few bugs and whatnots though, so let me know if you get a bum reply
16:07:02 <chimezie> short e's not long e's
16:07:45 <chimezie> wrong Mau Mau, tho
16:07:49 <chimezie> .wik Mau Mau
16:07:53 <phenny> "The Mau Mau Uprising was an insurgency by Kenyan rebels against the British colonial administration from 1952 to 1960." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau
16:07:56 <chimezie> there it is
16:08:00 wallrazer (n=steve@ip68-104-189-211.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
16:08:07 <chimezie> :)
16:08:33 <wallrazer> .origin tav
16:08:36 <chimezie> i actually had to put up the phonetic pronounciation of my name at work (in my office) due to gross debauchery by my fellow employees
16:08:38 <phenny> First saw tav|away on #swhack at 2001-08-30 01:07:56, saying 'tav|away is now known as tav'
16:09:00 <KragenSitaker> cheemehzee-eh is pretty phonetic, no?
16:09:28 <KragenSitaker> as a pronunciation for "chimezie" i mean
16:09:46 <sbp> yeah, I dunno where I pulled my original guess of "kih-meetz-ee" from
16:09:50 <KragenSitaker> german
16:09:53 <sbp> ch coul... aye
16:09:55 <chimezie> well it's more tonal than anything, but having *both* the tone and the phonetics missed was just too much for me
16:10:08 <KragenSitaker> tonal as in pitch?
16:10:11 <wallrazer> hey, soeone implemented my wikipedia idea
16:10:18 <chimezie> Kragen: yeah, that's what i use mostly
16:10:18 <wallrazer> is it phenny doing it?
16:10:19 <chimezie> yes
16:10:55 <sbp> .origin tav
16:11:00 <phenny> First saw tav|away on #swhack at 2001-08-30 01:07:56, saying 'tav|away is now known as tav'
16:11:02 <KragenSitaker> i'm listening to "Racked by Rope". it's a collage of recordings of some newscaster
16:11:06 <sbp> hmm
16:11:21 <chimezie> .origin jcowan
16:11:33 <phenny> First saw jcowan on #swhack at 2004-05-13 16:26:48, who then first said "Jon Hanna sent me an email asking me if I'd be interested in joining, so here I am."
16:12:09 * chimezie has to assume english isn't Eric Cantona's first language
16:12:20 <KragenSitaker> "Punishment the flaming debris. Serious crime victim. Stress injuries. Inflation. Make it faster, better, cheaper. Victims and how they died: CIA. National Security Council murdering a man: death."
16:12:21 <sbp> ooh, aah
16:13:41 <KragenSitaker> "Stress. Fatal heart attack. Funeral. Victims. The mountain of cocaine. Discrimination, racist massive lawsuit. Threat criminal risky starving hostage, militias, ethnic war."
16:13:46 <chimezie> .origin phenny
16:13:56 <KragenSitaker> it's a little disturbing
16:14:00 <phenny> First saw phenny on #swhack at 2004-05-03 16:10:18, who then first said 'hi, sbp'
16:14:23 <chimezie> must have been the genesis of phenny's self awareness
16:14:40 <phenny> chimezie: Yes.
16:15:01 <KragenSitaker> hahaha
16:15:14 * chimezie shudders
16:15:16 <KragenSitaker> .wik Aaron Swartz
16:15:19 <phenny> "Aaron Swartz (born 1986) is a writer, web developer, and entrepreneur." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
16:15:34 <sbp> entrepreneur?
16:15:50 <wallrazer> 86? how could anyone be born in 86?
16:15:56 * wallrazer is so frikkin old
16:16:14 <wallrazer> .wik Steve Ivy
16:16:21 <wallrazer> NOT FOUND MUTHA
16:16:24 <phenny> "'The Holly and the Ivy' is a traditional Christmas carol, which is among the most lightly Christianized carols of the Yuletide—the holly and the ivy being among the most familiar Druidic plants. 'Holly and ivy have been the mainstay of Christmas decoration for church [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holly_and_the_Ivy
16:16:30 <wallrazer> oh god.
16:16:40 <sbp> hehe
16:16:50 <chimezie> .wik Okhams Razor
16:16:57 <phenny> "Occam's Razor (also spelled Ockham's Razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okhams_razor
16:17:02 <chimezie> doh..
16:17:15 uxia has quit ()
16:17:46 <chimezie> .. just when i thought i reached the threshold of the amount of time I can waste on irc bots
16:17:49 <sbp> .origin tav
16:17:52 <phenny> First saw tav|away on #swhack at 2001-08-30 01:07:56, who then first said 'hi'
16:17:58 <sbp> there we go
16:18:01 <KragenSitaker> chimezie: what language does your name come from?
16:18:03 <sbp> chimezie: hey, just think how I feel :-)
16:18:35 <chimezie> the dialect is Igbo (Nigerian ethnicity)
16:18:41 <sbp> .wik Igbo
16:18:42 <chimezie> hmm
16:18:44 <phenny> "Igbo may refer to:" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo
16:18:45 <chimezie> bah
16:18:50 <chimezie> :)
16:18:50 <sbp> .wik Igbo dialect
16:19:01 <phenny> "Igbo (also known, less commonly, as Ibo; asụsụ Ndi Igbo in Igbo) is a language spoken in Nigeria by around 18 million speakers (the Igbo), especially in the southeastern region once identified as Biafra." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbo_language
16:19:04 <sbp> the disambiguation stuff is annoying
16:19:08 <chimezie> yeah
16:20:22 patbam (n=pat@c-69-251-250-77.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
16:20:36 <KragenSitaker> chimezie: so Igbo is a tonal language, like Mandarin?
16:20:46 <chimezie> absolutely
16:20:48 <chimezie> very tonal
16:20:56 * KragenSitaker reads wikipedia article
16:24:53 jewel has quit (Connection timed out)
16:25:33 <KragenSitaker> very interesting. it sounds like two tones shouldn't be too hard for english speakers to learn to hear though.
16:25:43 <KragenSitaker> do others of your coworkers learn the tones in your name at least?
16:25:58 <patbam> yay igbo!
16:26:12 * patbam wrote an awful paper about Igbo names as an undergrad
16:27:25 <chimezie> I pretty much don't expect most to get the tone.. The tone and phonetics are really almost mutually exclusive. So the result of missing both is disasterous
16:27:46 <patbam> i am a fan of igbo stops.
16:27:51 <chimezie> but I do think it has more to do with a culture of making an attempt to pronounce difficult names than an inherent inability to
16:28:17 <chimezie> s/culture/custom
16:28:51 wallrazer has quit ()
16:30:09 <chimezie> for example, if I tried to pronounce Chinese names by their spelling instead of the phonetics/pronounciation. I end up doing things like saying "eye-ching" instead of "yee-jing"
16:30:26 *** mumbles is now known as mumbles-out
16:30:43 <chimezie> s/names/words
16:37:29 <chimezie> .w directorship
16:37:32 <phenny> directorship 1. the position of a director of a business concern
16:41:56 MrKorky (n=MrKorky@ool-4355d406.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #swhack
16:41:56 <Monty> But what does MrKorky have to do with the price of fish?
16:41:59 <phenny> Hush there, Monty.
16:42:01 <Monty> I'm doing it? Sommerzeitverr??cktheit?
16:42:13 <jilldaw> gracious. I didn't know Monty knew that kind of language.
16:42:17 <sbp> .wik Mr. Korky
16:42:20 <Monty> "Punishment the top of revenues over the pages a concerted effort to build an object for most industrial animal feed, is redmonk on qin,
16:42:26 <phenny> "The Dandy is a British children's comic published by D." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dandy
16:42:35 <patbam> that seems to the case with most tone languages; if you speak a non-tonal language, most speakers of tone languages won't even try to explain the tone in their name, etc
16:42:37 <sbp> yeah, he'll all "Geschmakleinarbetetkommstagfiltereinmochit"
16:43:18 <patbam> i wonder if speakers of unrelated tonal languages, say, thai and chinese, expect each other to get the tones right
16:43:31 <chimezie> I'd imagine so
16:43:48 <chimezie> it would be a fair expectation
16:44:00 <jilldaw> having heard how Cantonese speakers typically speak Mandarin, I can say that their tones are often dreadful
16:44:14 <patbam> assuming there are a comparable number of tones, perhaps
16:44:25 <jilldaw> I've taken Mandarin classes with classmates who grew up speaking Cantonese, and they had trouble with tones in Mandarin
16:44:37 <patbam> there are sometimes other features that interact with tones as well, "creaky voice," for instnace
16:45:31 MrKorky has parted #swhack ()
16:45:53 <sbp> .wik Mr. Korky
16:45:58 <phenny> "The Dandy is a British children's comic published by D. C. Thomson & Co. Ltd of Dundee, which was first issued on 3 December (dated 4 December) 1937, and is currently the longest running comic in the world, which it became as of issue 3007 (dated 10 July 1999)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dandy
16:46:14 <jilldaw> (I've also had colleagues and friends whose first language was Cantonese and who spoke very clear Mandarin)
16:46:24 <jilldaw> sbp: isn't that
16:46:28 <jilldaw> oops
16:46:33 <jilldaw> sbp: isn't that Mr Quirky?
16:46:34 <patbam> doesn't cantonese have more tones than mandarin?
16:46:38 <jilldaw> yes
16:47:02 <sbp> Korky the Cat, apparently
16:47:41 <chimezie> off topic, but anyone know how many browser actually pay attention to the 'Path' header in Cookie based sessions and (correctly) send the correponding cookies for relative paths?
16:48:02 <jilldaw> (I make reference to the fact that when sbp and I met I used the word "quirky" and he was utterly befuddled; our accents were so different that it took a great many repetitions for the word to be communicated)
16:48:09 <sbp> oh! heh, heh
16:48:19 <jilldaw> (one of the things he heard me saying was "corky")
16:48:44 <sbp> car key? corky? kirtle? dorpal?!
16:48:49 <chimezie> .g cookie session relative path
16:48:51 <phenny> cookie session relative path: http://www.php.net/function.session-destroy
16:49:09 <sbp> it was great
16:49:22 <chimezie> .g cookie session relative path header
16:49:25 <phenny> cookie session relative path header: http://www.w3schools.com/asp/asp_quickref.asp?output=print
16:49:35 <jilldaw> I was about to say it nonrhotically, which probably would have done the trick, when he got it
16:50:14 <sbp> QUIRKY!
16:50:29 <chimezie> .wik derby soccer match
16:50:35 <phenny> "In many countries the term local derby, or simply just derby (pronounced 'dar-bee' in UK English), is used to mean a sporting fixture between two (generally local) rivals, particularly in (Association) Football." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_derby
16:51:05 <chimezie> hah.. i knew it wasn't an explicit qualifier.. in which case, every EPL match is a 'Derby' match
16:59:33 <tav> oooh, .origin
16:59:35 <tav> .origin sbp
16:59:38 <phenny> First saw sbp on #swhack at 2001-07-25 20:43:34, saying 'Hey, hi loggy'
16:59:46 <tav> .origin deltab
16:59:49 <phenny> First saw deltab on #swhack at 2001-08-31 01:02:10, who then first said 'not that those will work in the same way'
17:00:01 <tav> oooh! i beat deltab to here
17:00:07 <tav> .origin jillzilla
17:00:12 <phenny> First saw jillzilla on #swhack at 2001-12-04 20:48:37, who then first said '* jillzilla waves to AaronSw '
17:00:19 <tav> .origin Morbus
17:00:22 <phenny> First saw Morbus on #swhack at 2001-08-31 03:16:05, who then first said "god, you use'd rage? bwahahah."
17:00:28 <tav> .origin Aaronsw
17:00:40 <phenny> First saw Aaronsw on #swhack at 2001-11-18 17:43:35, saying 'Aaronsw is now known as foo`'
17:00:44 <tav> hmz
17:00:46 <tav> .origin AaronSw
17:00:50 <phenny> First saw AaronSw on #swhack at 2001-07-25 20:43:48, saying 'loggy says hello'
17:01:03 <chimezie> .orgin Jehova
17:01:17 <tav> .origin jehova
17:01:24 <tav> .origin Jehova
17:01:26 <chimezie> *system overload*
17:01:30 <tav> (or was that a joke?)
17:01:36 <phenny> Can't find info about jehova*.
17:01:40 <chimezie> my attempt at one , yes :)
17:01:42 <phenny> Can't find info about Jehova*.
17:01:44 <tav> heh
17:01:55 <tav> one never knows with irc nicks
17:02:03 <chimezie> true
17:02:06 <patbam> .origin life
17:02:16 <tav> nice one patbam
17:02:21 <KragenSitaker> "quuhh ki"
17:02:23 <phenny> Can't find info about life*.
17:02:26 <patbam> > phenny: Meteors over Kerala
17:02:34 <KragenSitaker> .origin kragen
17:02:40 <KragenSitaker> .origin kragensitaker
17:02:50 <phenny> Can't find info about kragen*.
17:02:57 <phenny> Can't find info about kragensitaker*.
17:03:01 <chimezie> .g site:imdb.org Hitchhikers guide
17:03:03 <phenny> site:imdb.org Hitchhikers guide: sorry, no results were found.
17:03:24 <chimezie> .g site:imdb.com Hitchhikers guide
17:03:27 <phenny> chimezie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt371724/
17:03:32 <KragenSitaker> Check it out now. The funk's so rough, a.
17:04:24 <chimezie> .wik Anime
17:04:25 * patbam has a crush on Zooey Deschanel.
17:04:27 <phenny> "//<![CDATA[ if (window.showTocToggle) { var tocShowText = 'show'; var tocHideText = 'hide'; showTocToggle(); } //]]>" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
17:04:31 <chimezie> uh oh
17:04:45 <chimezie> .wik Manga
17:04:46 <patbam> coming soon, phenny with a javascript interpreter
17:04:48 <phenny> "Manga (漫画) is the Japanese word for comics and print cartoons; outside of Japan, it usually refers specifically to Japanese comics." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga
17:05:29 <patbam> it would be cool if .wik could take a language code :)
17:12:04 <kpreid> .origin patbam
17:12:13 * KragenSitaker listens to Fela Kuti
17:12:23 <phenny> First saw patbam on #swhack at 2006-03-21 04:33:52, saying 'once upon a time, there were some quotes in a dark forest'
17:12:30 <patbam> .origin patfm
17:12:34 <KragenSitaker> this song accuses its listeners of not wanting to hear nigerian music
17:12:35 <chimezie> .wik Fela Ransom Kuti
17:12:38 <phenny> "Fela Anikulapo Kuti (b." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fela_Kuti
17:12:38 <phenny> First saw patfm on #swhack at 2004-03-03 06:25:52, who then first said 'ello? '
17:12:57 <KragenSitaker> which is a funny coincidence given that we were just talking about Igbo
17:13:55 <KragenSitaker> i'm just going through a collaborator's iTunes playlist in alphabetical order by artist
17:14:18 <KragenSitaker> phenny, tell sbp that your parsing of the first sentence of .wik Fela Ransom Kuti isn't quite right
17:14:21 <phenny> KragenSitaker: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
17:20:45 <patbam> .wik Kalakuta Republic
17:20:48 <phenny> "Kalakuta Republic was the name musician/political activist Fela Kuti gave to the communal compound that housed his family, band members, and recording studio in Lagos, Nigeria." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalakuta_Republic
17:27:35 <patbam> #swhack needs a republic.
17:28:08 <KragenSitaker> maybe we could all go work for Infogami.
17:33:13 <kpreid> "You'll have to unpack that before it even makes no sense."
17:39:31 Arnia (n=ircont9k@cpe-066-057-212-144.sc.res.rr.com) has joined #swhack
17:41:07 BigJibby (n=matt@mtl58-11-167-140.dialup.sprint-canada.net) has joined #swhack
17:44:18 <KragenSitaker> how annoying
17:44:40 <KragenSitaker> from 12:24 to 12:30 EST I scanned pp.1100-1175
17:45:01 <KragenSitaker> from 12:30 to now I've been dealing with a single word that got ripped off of p.1176 when I pulled two stuck-together pages apart
17:45:09 <KragenSitaker> which is 12 minutes
17:47:19 <KragenSitaker> in an instant my scanning went from 750 pages an hour to 5 words an hour.
17:47:30 <KragenSitaker> or maybe 4. i'm still waiting for the glue to dry.
17:47:49 <KragenSitaker> this is volume 9, part 1, in case anybody cares. i hope it is legal to put this one online.
17:47:50 BigJibby has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:52:44 <sbp> .g Monty
17:52:46 <phenny> sbp: 17:11Z <KragenSitaker> tell sbp that your parsing of the first sentence of .wik Fela Ransom Kuti isn't quite right
17:52:47 <phenny> sbp: http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/
17:52:47 <Monty> rabbit food's national online hates Sunset Bay's prohibitive outings!
17:52:49 <Monty> NOT FOUND MUTHA
17:53:12 bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #swhack
17:54:16 <sbp> .wik Fela Ransom Kuti
17:54:22 <phenny> "Fela Anikulapo Kuti (b. Olufela Olusegun Oludotun Ransome-Kuti, October 15, 1938 - August 2, 1997), or simply Fela, was a Nigerian multi-instrumentalist musician and composer, pioneer of Afrobeat music, human rights activist and political maverick." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fela_Kuti
17:54:24 <sbp> thanks, KragenSitaker
17:55:07 <sbp> phenny now replies with just a nickname: uri syntax for Google commands, unless a line has elapsed between the query and the response
17:55:32 <sbp> but I haven't tested it. let's see...
17:55:32 <sbp> .g 1
17:55:33 <sbp> .g 2
17:55:33 <sbp> .g 3
17:55:35 <phenny> 1: http://www.formula1.com/
17:55:35 <phenny> 2: http://www.internet2.edu/
17:55:35 <phenny> sbp: http://www.3com.com/
17:55:42 <sbp> ha, yep
17:55:55 <BeHappy_> lol
17:56:07 <sbp> this is useful because it cuts down on the output
17:56:29 <sbp> which used to be a linearly proportional to the verbosity of the input
17:56:54 <crschmidt> .wik Anime
17:56:56 <phenny> "//<![CDATA[ if (window.showTocToggle) { var tocShowText = 'show'; var tocHideText = 'hide'; showTocToggle(); } //]]>" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
17:57:04 <sbp> zcrap
17:57:10 <crschmidt> The TOC is not in the same place as usual on that one
17:57:16 <crschmidt> not sure if there's an easy way to test for that
17:57:16 <sbp> aha, thanks
17:58:50 <sbp> .reload wikipedia
17:58:52 <phenny> sbp: <module 'modules.wikipedia' from '/home/sbp/phenny/modules/wikipedia.py'> (version: 2006-03-26 17:55:47)
17:58:54 <sbp> .wik Anime
17:58:58 <phenny> "Anime (アニメ) is a style of cartoon animation originating in Japan, with distinctive character and background stylings that visually set it apart from other forms of animation. While some anime is entirely hand-drawn, computer assistance in generating the animation [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
17:59:01 <sbp> there we go
17:59:56 * sbp fixes the sentence thing again...
17:59:56 <sbp> .wik Anime
17:59:59 <phenny> "Anime (アニメ) is a style of cartoon animation originating in Japan, with distinctive character and background stylings that visually set it apart from other forms of animation." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
18:00:34 <sbp> crschmidt: the fix was to just ignore paragraphs with window.showTocToggle in 'em
18:00:55 <sbp> the TOC wasn't the problem: it's in a table so it's being ignored anyway
18:14:46 * est glurble
18:14:47 <est> scuse
18:14:53 <sbp> no problem
18:16:14 <jilldaw> hi est
18:17:18 <est> gleepings
18:17:54 <patbam> proof positive that esperantists DO NOT smile: http://esperanto.org/Ondo/Personoj.htm
18:20:52 danja (i=DannyAye@host54-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #swhack
18:20:52 <Monty> hi danja
18:21:36 <danja> hi Monty, how hangs it?
18:21:46 <Monty> dave1010: did a "sound bite" small farms get ready to condense my client repositories on each other off the enwiki-20060208-pages-articles.xml.bz2 dump; where I got involved and former Governor of wax.)"
18:22:27 <sbp> not true! she's smiling: http://esperanto.org/Ondo/Hg-98.jpg
18:22:30 <sbp> or it might be wind
18:22:49 <sbp> oh also, http://esperanto.org/Ondo/Melnikov.jpg might be smiling
18:22:55 <sbp> but it's hard to look at the photo for too long
18:25:30 <patbam> i do detect a distinct touch of mirth in that last photo, yes.
18:25:37 <patbam> it's palpable.
18:25:55 * Arnia waves
18:26:00 <sbp> hey Arnia
18:27:25 <Arnia> Anyone know of a connectionist mailing list
18:27:43 <Arnia> Hey sbp
18:28:40 <chimezie> .wik Monotonicity Logic
18:28:46 <phenny> "A non-monotonic logic is a formal logic whose consequence relation is not monotonic." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-monotonic_logic
18:29:03 <chimezie> .w monotonicity
18:29:07 <phenny> I couldn't find 'monotonicity' in WordNet.
18:29:09 yoz has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:29:15 <chimezie> .w monotonic
18:29:18 <phenny> monotonic 1. of a sequence or function
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18:29:21 <phenny> monotonic 2. sounded or spoken in a tone unvarying in pitch
18:30:28 <kpreid> phenny: of a sequence or function *what*?
18:30:30 <kpreid> sbp!
18:30:37 <sbp> .wik Monotonic
18:30:41 <phenny> "In mathematics, functions between ordered sets are monotonic (or monotone, or even isotone) if they preserve the given order." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotonic
18:30:47 <sbp> there
18:30:57 <sbp> also:
18:31:02 <sbp> .wordnet monotonic
18:31:06 <phenny> monotonic 1. of a sequence or function; consistently increasing and never decreasing or consistently decreasing and never increasing in value
18:31:10 <phenny> monotonic 2. sounded or spoken in a tone unvarying in pitch; "the owl's faint monotonous hooting"
18:31:15 <kpreid> aha
18:31:21 <kpreid> semicolon misuse
18:31:27 <kpreid> (not abuse)
18:31:48 <Arnia> non-decreasing and non-increasing :p
18:31:49 <chimezie> ahh
18:31:57 <Arnia> Two consecutive values can be equal...
18:31:57 <sbp> I thought until now that the semicolon was only used to delimit the definition from the examples
18:32:27 <kpreid> sbp: /; "/
18:32:32 <chimezie> .wik closed world assumption
18:32:34 <phenny> "The closed world assumption is the presumption that what is not currently known to be true is false." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_world_assumption
18:32:36 <sbp> I guess not though, but I wonder if searching for '; "' would bring up too many fositives
18:32:46 <kpreid> or perhaps the last semicolon
18:32:56 <kpreid> or the last semicolon not quoted
18:33:09 <chimezie> .wik horn clause
18:33:10 <Arnia> .wik fuzzy set
18:33:13 <phenny> "In logic, and in particular in propositional calculus, a definite clause is a proposition of the general type" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_clause
18:33:13 <phenny> "Fuzzy sets are an extension of classical set theory and are used in fuzzy logic." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_set
18:33:23 <chimezie> oh boy..
18:33:28 * chimezie watches his productivity plummet
18:33:38 <Arnia> .wik connectionism
18:33:39 <kpreid> .wikipedia horn clause
18:33:41 <phenny> "Connectionism is an approach in the fields of artificial intelligence, cognitive science, neuroscience, psychology and philosophy of mind." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectionism
18:33:42 <phenny> "In logic, and in particular in propositional calculus, a definite clause is a proposition of the general type" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_clause
18:33:56 <kpreid> sbp: perhaps .wikipedia should drop the sentence guessing?
18:34:12 <Arnia> Well that is as relevant as a badger
18:34:35 <kpreid> ah I see that that isn't the problem for Horn clause
18:34:45 <Arnia> .wik radical construction grammar
18:34:50 <sbp> kpreid: yeah, I was thinking about that. and also dropping the URI. but... man, it's a difficult balance. oh! wait, you mean for the long command. good idea!
18:34:51 <phenny> "William Croft is a professor of linguistics at the University of New Mexico, USA." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Croft_(linguist)
18:35:18 <Arnia> Well, that is mostly relevant (and up to date too... he only moved to New Mexico a couple of months ago!)
18:35:27 <kpreid> sbp: since you just demonstrated .wordnet ...
18:35:33 <Arnia> Someone is stalking him obviously
18:35:38 <sbp> aye
18:35:52 <chimezie> .wik situational calculus
18:35:57 <phenny> "The situation calculus is a logic formalism designed for representing and reasoning about dynamical domains." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situation_calculus
18:36:05 <sbp> Arnia: obviously you if you know the information to be correct :-)
18:36:08 <chimezie> dynamical?
18:36:10 <Arnia> .wik modal logic
18:36:13 <phenny> "A modal logic is any logic for handling modalities: concepts like possibility, impossibility, and necessity." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_logic
18:36:18 * Arnia looks innocent
18:36:27 <chimezie> .wordnet dynamical
18:36:30 <phenny> dynamical 1. characterized by action or forcefulness or force of personality; "a dynamic market"; "a dynamic speaker"; "the dynamic president of the firm"
18:36:44 <chimezie> I would have thought 'dynamic' would be more appropriate
18:36:49 <sbp> ".w" is better unless you really need the quotes, I think
18:36:55 <Arnia> .wordnet anaphor
18:36:59 <phenny> anaphor 1. a word (such as a pronoun) used to avoid repetition; the referent of an anaphor is determined by its antecedent
18:37:18 <Arnia> "used to avoid repetition" I contest
18:37:33 <sbp> we need WordNetWiki
18:37:38 <sbp> .gc word-net-wiki
18:37:41 <Ash> wordnetSTFU
18:37:41 <phenny> word-net-wiki: 1
18:37:44 <Arnia> Used to dynamically bind referents across discourse more like
18:38:02 <chimezie> .gc sommammabitch
18:38:05 <phenny> sommammabitch: 3
18:38:25 <Arnia> Repeating the NP "a dog" twice means something different to using it the first time and using a pronoun the second
18:38:57 <chimezie> as in " a dog is a dog " ?
18:39:26 <Arnia> Such as "A dog barked. A dog growled."
18:39:36 <Arnia> "A dog barked. It growled"
18:40:10 <chimezie> i can imagine that must give NLPs the fits
18:40:20 <Arnia> And then there is the whole distinction between pronouns, reflexives and descriptions.
18:41:02 <Arnia> chimezie: It isn't that bad... as long as you use a sensible syntax/semantic model which can deal with discourse
18:42:17 <chimezie> .g NLP python
18:42:20 <phenny> chimezie: http://nltk.sourceforge.net/
18:42:24 <Arnia> Descriptive anaphora: "A red-haired basset hound barked. [..] The dog growled."
18:42:34 <Arnia> Where [..] indicates some other discourse units
18:42:36 <patbam> nltk is neat
18:42:54 <chimezie> oohh i hadn't heard of that one before
18:42:56 <patbam> they seem to have rewritten it as nltk_lite
18:42:59 <chimezie> and written in python as well
18:43:12 <patbam> yep, and there's a fair lot of documetnation to boot.
18:43:18 <Arnia> .g Heart of Gold
18:43:20 <phenny> Arnia: http://www.heartofgold-hostel.de/
18:43:24 <Arnia> nope
18:43:32 <Arnia> .g PET HPSG
18:43:35 <phenny> Arnia: http://heartofgold.dfki.de/PET.html
18:43:37 <jessica> The Hitchhiker's Guide Improbability Drive starship?
18:43:40 <Arnia> There we go
18:44:01 <patbam> head driven phrase structure grammar? :)
18:44:23 <Arnia> Yeah
18:44:41 <chimezie> .wik HItchhikers guide
18:44:47 * Arnia is a construction grammar guy but felt it should be mentioned
18:44:49 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "HItchhikers guide".
18:45:05 <Arnia> .wik construction grammar
18:45:08 <phenny> "The term construction grammar (CxG) covers a 'family' of theories, or models, of grammar that are based on the idea that the primary unit of grammar is the grammatical construction rather than the atomic syntactic unit and the rule that combines atomic units, and that [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_grammar
18:45:44 <Arnia> Essentially, grammar turned inside out compared to 'traditional' generative theories
18:45:45 <chimezie> .wik Brown Corpus
18:45:48 <phenny> "The Brown Corpus of Standard American English (or just Brown Corpus) was compiled by Henry Kucera and W." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Corpus
18:46:03 <Arnia> Radical construction grammar abandons the idea of syntactic relation entirely
18:46:22 <Arnia> Which is a pretty good idea
18:47:58 <Arnia> Anyway, I need to go to the Bridge for the Sunday pub quiz
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18:50:05 <Monty> yo _johannes!
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18:50:22 <est> that must be hard for monty to resist
18:50:24 <Monty> very surprised to chat
18:51:13 <_johannes> hey Monty!
18:51:16 <Monty> cheemehzee-eh is 1:10, i.e. one hour to LC? oh man
18:52:05 <jcowan_> What ho, Monty
18:52:08 <Monty> simple tool, then a negated one with Aspergers finally ...
18:52:12 <jcowan_> And Ittywhonk!
18:53:47 <chimezie> eh?
18:54:35 * chimezie bitchslaps Monty for phonetic debauchery
18:54:35 <Monty> neat!
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19:16:46 <chimezie> .w procure
19:16:54 <phenny> procure 1. get by special effort
19:16:57 <phenny> procure 2. arrange for sexual partners for others
19:24:01 tekNico (n=tekNico@pdpc/supporter/active/tekNico) has joined #swhack
19:24:01 <Monty> hi tekNico
19:24:45 <tekNico> Wow, hi, that was fast. ;-)
19:27:24 <jcowan_> tekNico: If you have not been here before, then be advised that everything said here is publicly logged to the Web, so behave or forswear any hope of a political career.
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19:45:39 <Monty> yo wallrazer!
19:50:32 <clsn> Hey, jcowan_, a grammatical weirdness I noticed...
19:52:23 <jcowan_> Hit me.
19:53:09 <clsn> OK. You know how sometimes verbs are changed into infinitive phrases, and carry their objects with them? Like "I hit the ball" -> "I can hit the ball"?
19:53:54 <clsn> hit comes into the infinitive formation there (without the "to"), and the object remains the object. Same with other modals, like "could" "would" etc. With me?
19:54:38 <jcowan_> Sure.
19:55:09 <clsn> Hokay. And it works with pronouns too: "He sees me" -> "He can see me."
19:55:16 <jcowan_> +1
19:55:32 <clsn> It stands to reason that the case of the object should not change in this transformation.
19:56:02 <jcowan_> +1
19:56:06 <clsn> And yet, "It is I" -> "It could be me". Granted, "It is me" is colloquially acceptable, but nobody would accept "it could be I."
19:56:10 <thelsdj> hrm i need to get rid of the stupid default wordpress theme on my blog
19:57:34 <clsn> Is a puzzlement.
19:58:11 <jcowan_> Well, I think that's because the subject of an infinitive is accusative, and so the object of an infinitive copula is also accusative.
19:58:25 <jcowan_> "For him to be her is a possibility."
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19:59:55 <jcowan_> The acc+inf construction existed in Old E, but was much rarer then; it only became common at the revival of learning.
20:00:12 <clsn> Hmm... That's a good point. Didn't consider looking at the subject of the infinitive. I'm not completely sure yet; your example has the infinitive clause as an object of a preposition, so maybe that's what's doing it.
20:00:32 <jcowan_> "I changed him to be her."
20:01:16 <jcowan_> Arguably this is underlyingly "for him to be her", but the "for" is elided to avoid confusion with a verb-preposition compound.
20:01:29 <jcowan_> There are dialects of English that use "for" or "for to" to mark the infinitive.
20:02:05 <clsn> Mm. The strange part is that we're dealing with modals here, which aren't much like other grammatical forms.
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20:02:38 <jcowan_> Mostly in that the infinitive that follows them does not use "to", probably because modal+inf is older than general verb + inf.
20:02:40 <clsn> Obviously it's *correct* to use the objective case.
20:02:55 webchick has quit (Nick collision from services.)
20:02:58 <jcowan_> in OE and ME times most of the verbs that take inf now took that-complement clauses instead.
20:02:59 *** webchick is now known as snarkador_
20:03:36 <clsn> Still persists in dialects, esp. faux-Yiddish.
20:03:41 <jcowan_> And some like "know" are still flexible.
20:03:47 <jcowan_> What still persists?
20:03:57 <clsn> I want that you should see this.
20:04:01 <jcowan_> Right.
20:04:18 <jcowan_> And "I know that he is a chicken" and "I know him to be a chicken" sound equally felicitous to me.
20:04:39 <jcowan_> German and Yiddish don't have inf clauses *except* after modals.
20:05:03 <clsn> I see.
20:05:13 <jcowan_> I'm not sure if Dutch can do it. The modern Scand. languages have it, but Old Norse did not.
20:05:51 <jcowan_> Not sure about Icelandic either.
20:06:13 <clsn> You could ask Mr Pure Icelandic. :)
20:06:21 <jcowan_> I know the answer: no.
20:06:26 <clsn> Heh.
20:06:36 <jcowan_> I need to ask an impure Icelander.
20:06:49 <clsn> Oooh, if you find one, see if she has a sister.
20:07:01 <jcowan_> Will do.
20:07:50 * jcowan_ keeps wanting to get the Cambridge Grammar of the Eng. Lang., what with Pullum plugging it in Language Log all the time.
20:11:01 <tekNico> Anyone around here bent on reverse engineering?
20:14:03 <jcowan_> Reverse engineering what, tekNico?
20:15:03 <tekNico> 8KB of Z80 asm code from a 1979 arcade game, Head On 2.
20:15:19 <jcowan_> Why not use an emulator?
20:16:25 <tekNico> I play it using MAME. I'd like to rewrite that game, and I'd really like to know the algorithm it uses.
20:17:05 <clsn> Haven't you ever needed to convert a chess game into a melody? I know you have. http://rubyforge.org/projects/bangkok/
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20:19:55 <Ash> MIME
20:20:59 <tekNico> MEME
20:21:54 <webchick> MAMA
20:23:11 <patbam> MOMA
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20:28:50 <tekNico> Well, thanks for the laugh. Is silliness all I get? :-)
20:30:01 <clsn> I don't think I'm up to reverse-engineering ASM code. Dunno about the others.
20:45:46 <patbam> I'm not up to reverse engineering a sandwich.
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20:49:35 <jetscreamer> wouldn't you just need to eat it and wait about 24 hours? (ewww)
20:54:04 <patbam> 24 hours? you're patient. heh. o dear. this thread of conversation...
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21:52:48 <BigJibby> Monty, hi, how are you this day?
21:52:49 <Monty> here's hoping.
21:53:25 <BigJibby> that's good, Monty
21:53:26 <Monty> google let me off.
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22:01:33 <BigJibby> Monty, google let you off of what?
22:01:34 <Monty> [let you off of what?] no results found.
22:01:53 <BigJibby> Monty, what did google let you off of?
22:01:53 <Monty> What do you think ?
22:02:11 <BigJibby> Monty, I have no idea what google let you off of
22:02:14 <Monty> till the laugh. Is a writer, web data effectively
22:03:04 <BigJibby> Monty, what kind of stuff do you write?
22:03:04 <Monty> booblefish: 31
22:04:29 <bjoern_> isn't that the kind of stuff phenny writes Monty?
22:04:29 <Monty> <_<
22:05:13 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
22:05:13 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 75, 2, 4, 2, 6, 9. Your target is 642. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
22:05:36 <bjoern_> Monty, calc 9*(75-4)
22:05:36 <Monty> bjoern_: 639
22:05:43 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
22:05:45 <bjoern_> Monty, calc 9*(75-4)+6/3
22:05:45 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 13 milliseconds. I found all 42 solutions in about 239 milliseconds.
22:05:46 <Monty> ibot (75*2 + 9)*4 + 6
22:05:47 <bjoern_> Monty, calc 9*(75-4)+6/2
22:05:48 <Monty> bjoern_: 641
22:05:49 <Monty> bjoern_: 642
22:06:32 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
22:06:32 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 100, 5, 6, 1, 3, 5. Your target is 834. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
22:06:59 <bjoern_> Monty, calc (100*3/5)
22:06:59 <Monty> bjoern_: 60
22:07:03 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
22:07:04 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 116 milliseconds. I found all 8 solutions in about 251 milliseconds.
22:07:05 <Monty> ibot ((5 + 3)*5 + 100 - 1)*6
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