Swhack! 10 April 2006
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00:11:01 <Arnia> Grouse Butts... where in the country is NO 298901?
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00:28:23 <Monty> bah, it's BeHappy_ again
00:36:47 <bjoern_> boing
00:37:09 <bjoern_> Monty, countdown
00:37:09 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 25, 1, 6, 1, 2, 4. Your target is 348. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
00:37:40 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
00:37:41 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 12 milliseconds. I found all 608 solutions in about 261 milliseconds.
00:37:42 <Monty> ibot (25 + 4)*6*2
00:37:46 <bjoern_> Monty, calc 4^(1+1) * 25 - 2
00:37:46 <Monty> bjoern_: 398
00:38:29 <JibberJim> how come wikipedia are down, are the Britanica people doing a DoS attack on it?
00:38:42 <JibberJim> Monty, countdown
00:38:42 <Monty> One large one and five small numbers: 50, 7, 4, 8, 9, 1. Your target is 174. You have thirty seconds, tick, tock, tick, tock...
00:38:59 <JibberJim> 1+7+4 = 174
00:39:12 <Monty> Duh dum, duh dum, duh-da-da-dum! Your 30 seconds are up!
00:39:13 <Monty> I found a solution in approximately 36 milliseconds. I found all 212 solutions in about 235 milliseconds.
00:39:15 <Monty> ibot (9 - 1)*7*4 - 50
00:39:19 <JibberJim> or rather ''+1+7+4=174
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02:15:19 <Arnia> From the mouth of bots No. 96: "Resources are also many who don't view lesbianism as a mix mostly between me, digitalfox, arnia and you, based on who talks the most iconic victorian gothic buildings in the 20th century"
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02:31:38 <Ash> JibberJim: Dude, a brittanica DoS would be so awesome
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04:44:24 <bancus> .wn economics
04:44:27 <phenny> economics 1. the branch of social science that deals with the production and distribution and consumption of goods and services and their management
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04:45:49 <bancus> .wn economy
04:45:52 <phenny> economy 1. the system of production and distribution and consumption
04:45:56 <phenny> economy 2. the efficient use of resources
04:45:59 <phenny> economy 3. frugality in the expenditure of money or resources [...]
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07:09:09 <thelsdj_> phenny: ask Morbus what he's playing and if he got any mmo's
07:09:12 <phenny> thelsdj_: I'll pass that on when morbus is around.
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08:21:59 <Monty> Thank goodness, lisppaste2 is back!
08:22:01 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
08:22:04 <Monty> glee! i'm playing with . no visitors :z
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09:35:16 <Monty> yo schepers!
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09:50:13 <gromgull> monty?
09:50:14 <Monty> implements harpsichords.
09:51:27 <DrBacchus> About time somebody did.
10:07:29 <farh0rizon> libby ping?
10:07:49 <libby> ello
10:07:59 <libby> if this is about jena reviews, I know :(
10:08:06 <libby> ...and I will do 'em today
10:08:11 <farh0rizon> you guessed! :-)
10:08:17 <farh0rizon> ok, ta
10:08:24 <farh0rizon> any idea when?
10:08:32 <libby> sorry, I forgot, and damian reminded me last night but it was too late
10:08:45 <farh0rizon> he has some to do too ...
10:08:52 <libby> real soon now :)
10:08:58 <libby> promise
10:09:03 <farh0rizon> much appreciated
10:09:11 <libby> np, sorry late!
10:09:19 <farh0rizon> that's ok
10:09:34 <kandinski> hey Sean
10:09:39 <kandinski> oh libs
10:10:53 <libby> ello
10:45:39 <sbp> boing
10:45:41 <phenny> sbp: 02:26Z <Ash> tell sbp we should set up a wikipedia mirror on crushed so we aren't without wikipedia again
10:45:46 <phenny> sbp: 02:28Z <Ash> tell sbp to add 'you're welcome' in other languages to phenny
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11:13:07 <sbp> okay, now I need to work out if Wikipedia would have its own zipcode if printed out
11:13:43 <crschmidt> heh
11:13:45 <phenny> crschmidt: 05:25Z <GabeW> tell crschmidt that we'd like to see phenny run in ##identity
11:14:17 <crschmidt> sbp: see above
11:14:35 <crschmidt> perhaps it's time to consider asking lilo for a lift on phenny's channel restriction?
11:14:39 <sbp> crschmidt: tell GabeW that phenny is currently at or very close to her channel limit and I have several such requests already stacking; I'll have to run another phenny
11:14:52 <sbp> welp, the problem with that is also that the more channels she's on, the slower she gets
11:15:24 <sbp> comparing phenny to phennytest, I think if we added another five or ten channels to phenny, she's just going to be pwned in the nuuts
11:15:52 <sbp> I spoke about it with uche (I think), and decided I ought to do some profiling of her to make sure it's on the network and not in the code
11:16:09 <crschmidt> I thought we decided that that was mostly as a result of the problems with vorpal at the time?
11:16:13 <sbp> but I'm pretty damn sure it's not something that's going to be fixable either way--I've worked really hard on making the code extremely tight
11:16:21 <sbp> actually, yeah, that was a huge part of it
11:16:24 <sbp> but it's still an issue
11:16:30 <crschmidt> okay
11:16:36 <crschmidt> loggy: pointer
11:16:36 <loggy> http://swhack.com/logs/2006-04-10#T11-16-36
11:17:17 <sbp> also, I don't think that running two phennies will necessarily be a bad thing: for the most part I'm hoping it'll be transparent. the big "?" is as to how I handle the tell database situation. I'll have to implement locking, is all
11:17:39 <crschmidt> phenny: tell GabeW 1. I don't run phenny, sbp does. 2. See http://swhack.com/logs/2006-04-10#T11-13-45 . 3. Code's at http://inamidst.com/phenny/ , from which it's really pretty easy to run your own phenny until or unless sbp does something to run multiple instances
11:17:41 <phenny> crschmidt: I'll pass that on when gabew is around.
11:18:05 <sbp> it's just a bit of a grumblesigh because the tell code is kinda crappy, so I'll basically end up rewriting the whole module, which is also a good thing, but it means it's going to have to wait till I feel crazy enough to do it
11:18:10 <JibberJim> if you're going to have a multitude of phenny's it'd be great if they could share .seen information
11:18:11 <crschmidt> (Although the released phenny does lack some of the more useful phenny features.)
11:18:19 <sbp> JibberJim: good idea
11:18:22 <JibberJim> and tell
11:18:31 <sbp> yeah. like "google", which I often get requests for
11:18:36 <crschmidt> right
11:18:39 <sbp> on google, I'm thinking of making it more of a drop in thing
11:18:41 <crschmidt> that's the only one i was aware of
11:18:50 <sbp> and writing, er I mean releasing, the code that uses a Google API key
11:18:59 <crschmidt> heh
11:19:06 <sbp> myersbriggs, for example, isn't included in the distribution
11:19:16 <sbp> because I'm so ashamed that I even put it in as a joke :-)
11:19:40 <sbp> also all the admin stuff
11:19:50 <sbp> security through obscurity
11:20:10 <sbp> anyway, Wikipedia zip code. let's see...
11:20:36 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare runs to 9.75 print preview pages for me
11:20:49 <sbp> $ curl -s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare | wc
11:20:49 <sbp> 638 7963 100226
11:20:53 <sbp> that's useful
11:21:13 <sbp> .calc 100226 bytes in kilobytes
11:21:16 <phenny> 100 226 bytes = 97.8769531 kilobytes
11:21:33 <crschmidt> is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Shakespeare&printable=yes shorter?
11:22:04 <sbp> oddly enough, not at all. exactly the same size, to within about 0.2 of a page or so
11:22:13 <sbp> .calc 97.8769531 / 9.75
11:22:16 <phenny> 97.8769531 / 9.75 = 10.0386619
11:22:17 <crschmidt> heh, it's 12 pages on mine
11:22:28 <sbp> so that's KB/page
11:24:07 * sbp does "$ bzcat enwiki-20060208-pages-articles.xml.bz2 | wc --bytes" and waits...
11:26:16 <sbp> anyway, meanwhile...
11:26:48 <sbp> this is A4 paper, which is 210mm (width) by 297mm (length)
11:27:00 <sbp> I should look up the average size of a zipcode
11:27:18 <sbp> -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code
11:27:21 <crschmidt> zipcode or postcode?
11:29:17 <sbp> "Zips (29470 records): 1893118 bytes" - http://www.census.gov/geo/www/gazetteer/gazette.html
11:29:19 <sbp> zipcode
11:29:28 <sbp> so it looks like there are 29,470
11:30:23 <sbp> now to find the area of the United States...
11:30:41 <sbp> United States of America Area: 5,984,685 miles² (9,631,418 km²)
11:30:41 <sbp> According to http://wikitravel.org/en/United_States_of_America - More sources »
11:30:45 <sbp> - http://www.google.com/search?q=area+of+the+United+States&oe=UTF-8
11:31:08 <sbp> .calc 9,631,418 km² / 29,470
11:31:11 <phenny> sbp: Sorry, no result.
11:31:16 <sbp> .calc 9,631,418 / 29,470
11:31:19 <phenny> 9 631 418 / 29 470 = 326.821106
11:31:40 <kpreid> <sbp> ... the big "?" is as to how I handle the tell database situation. I'll have to implement locking, ...
11:31:40 <sbp> so the average zipcode covers 326.821106 km sqare
11:31:44 <kpreid> or...
11:31:45 <sbp> er, km square
11:32:21 <kpreid> run a third pseudo-phenny process which actually stores the data, and the two real phennies connect to.
11:33:15 <kpreid> or, make phenny run in event-loop style so you can have two IRC connections and just talk to one data store object
11:33:19 <JibberJim> yeah a phenny service so we can make REST requests outside of IRC!
11:33:23 <kpreid> (same architecture, different implementation)
11:33:35 <sbp> oh man
11:34:03 <kpreid> (clarification: the second thing is all in one process)
11:34:27 <sbp> both good ideas
11:36:26 <sbp> bzcat is taking forever. I thought it was something like 37GB though all told
11:36:32 <sbp> so let's use that tentatively for now
11:37:13 <sbp> so, it's 10.0386619 kilobytes/page
11:37:27 <sbp> so $totalsize / 10.0386619 kilobytes gives the amount of pages
11:37:36 <sbp> .calc 37 gigabytes / 10.0386619 kilobytes
11:37:39 <phenny> (37 gigabytes) / (10.0386619 kilobytes) = 3 864 789.19
11:37:57 <sbp> Wikipedia is 3,864,790 pages
11:38:07 <sbp> heh. okay, so...
11:39:13 <sbp> a page is 21cm by 29.7cm
11:39:21 <sbp> .calc 21cm * 29.7cm
11:39:24 <phenny> (21 centimeters) * 29.7 centimeters = 0.06237 m2
11:39:41 <sbp> .calc 21cm * 29.7cm in km squared
11:39:44 <phenny> (21 cm) * 29.7 cm = 6.23700e-8 km squared
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11:40:10 <sbp> .calc ( 21cm * 29.7cm ) * 3,864,790 in km squared
11:40:13 <phenny> ((21 cm) * 29.7 cm) * 3 864 790 = 0.241046952 km squared
11:40:30 <sbp> kinda sucks
11:40:48 <sbp> .calc ( 21cm * 29.7cm ) * 3,864,790 in square km
11:40:51 <phenny> ((21 cm) * 29.7 cm) * 3 864 790 = 0.241046952 square km
11:41:00 <sbp> .calc 326.821106 / 0.241046952
11:41:03 <phenny> 326.821106 / 0.241046952 = 1 355.84003
11:41:18 <sbp> so Wikipedia is only 1/1356 of a zip code
11:41:33 <sbp> oh, got the actual figure
11:41:36 <sbp> $ bzcat enwiki-20060208-pages-articles.xml.bz2 | wc --bytes
11:41:36 <sbp> 4599907791
11:41:43 <sbp> .calc 4599907791 bytes in gigabytes
11:41:46 <phenny> 4 599 907 791 bytes = 4.28399797 gigabytes
11:41:50 <crschmidt> hmhm
11:42:00 <sbp> ...
11:42:09 <sbp> that can't be right, that's way too small
11:44:25 <sbp> .calc 0.241046952 square km in square m
11:44:27 <phenny> 0.241046952 (square kilometers) = 241 046.952 square meters
11:45:44 <sbp> .calc sqrt( 241046.952 )
11:45:47 <phenny> sqrt(241 046.952) = 490.965327
11:45:55 <crschmidt> JibberJim: i'm not seeing a javascript thingy happening in that google thing
11:46:15 <crschmidt> that you linked
11:46:42 <sbp> it came up as Arabic for me
11:47:53 <crschmidt> yes, but that's not surprising
11:48:20 <crschmidt> he linked to it as ?hl=ar
11:48:34 <crschmidt> but it's supposed to pop up a javascript formy thing of some kind
11:48:48 <JibberJim> in what UA?
11:49:31 <JibberJim> happens for me still in IE/Opera/FF 1.5
11:49:44 <crschmidt> FF 1.5 on OS X
11:50:06 <JibberJim> anything in the javascript console?
11:50:52 <crschmidt> hey, it worked that time
11:51:07 <sbp> [[[
11:51:08 <crschmidt> maybe rolled out a fix on some servers
11:51:10 <sbp> Error: missing ; before statementSource File: http://jibbering.com/test4.jsLine: 25, Column: 243Source Code:w.google.co.uk/&hl=en">Sign in</a></font></td></tr><tr height=4><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1></td></tr></table><img src="/intl/en_uk/images/logo.gif" width=276 height=110 alt="Google"><br><br><form onsubmit="alert(\'This is not google, it'll be submit
11:51:11 <sbp> ]]]
11:51:25 <sbp> oh
11:51:29 <sbp> works for me too now I refresh
11:51:35 <crschmidt> I'm logged in
11:51:44 <JibberJim> that's strange
11:51:52 <JibberJim> I wonder why it only works after a refresh
11:52:11 <JibberJim> does it work reliably now?
11:52:42 <crschmidt> seems to
11:52:48 * crschmidt submits credit card info to jibbering
11:53:00 <crschmidt> hm, no, not reliable
11:53:29 <JibberJim> can you replace test4 with test5 in the url and see if that works?
11:53:41 <crschmidt> looking at the headers, it's not even fetching the jibbering js
11:53:44 <crschmidt> when it doesn't work
11:53:47 <JibberJim> 12345566 is not a valid format crschmidt
11:54:08 <JibberJim> is the book search there in the results when it failes crschmidt ?
11:54:33 <crschmidt> hm, no
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11:55:15 <jcowan> Itt you whonk!
11:55:27 <JibberJim> so that's why... the flaw is in the book search, so if the results aren't there, neither is the flaw
11:55:55 <crschmidt> Yep
11:56:15 <crschmidt> Does it only work in arabic?
11:56:29 <JibberJim> some people say it works in en too, but I've not seen it
11:57:03 <crschmidt> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hs=xjZ&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%3Cscript+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fjibbering.com%2Ftest4.js%22%3E+OR+%3Cscript%3Ebooks%3C%2Fscript%3E&btnG=Search
11:59:39 <sbp> jcowan, hello! today I worked out that Wikipedia, printed out, would cover 1/1356 of a zip code
11:59:52 <JibberJim> hmm, interesting, I wonder what the rules are for including the book searches
11:59:53 <crschmidt> JibberJim: <script src="http://jibbering.com/test4.js"> OR <script>books</script> as a search works for me
12:00:11 <crschmidt> JibberJim: pfft, who knows. it's like address searches, or google maps searches
12:00:38 <JibberJim> yep that appears reliable
12:00:50 <JibberJim> I'll update the link to the more reliable one!
12:01:00 <jcowan> sbp: I don't understand that, since a zipcode is of highly variable size.
12:01:32 <sbp> jcowan: I used an average zip code size, by doing Size of the United States / number of zipcodes
12:01:32 <crschmidt> jcowan: assuming that zipcodes are of uniform size
12:01:50 <jcowan> Ah.
12:01:53 <sbp> I've been looking around for the smallest zipcode, but can't seem to find a value for it
12:02:33 <jcowan> There are single buildings here in NYC with their own zipcodes.
12:03:11 <sbp> wow, cool
12:03:34 <sbp> could you put a tape measure around one for me please? :-)
12:03:43 <jcowan> With the exception of such oddities, there is a one-to-one mapping between zipcodes and post offices.
12:04:15 <jcowan> Before 9/11, the two WTC towers (jointly) had two zipcodes, one for NY State offices, one for everything else.
12:04:57 <sbp> and the offices were spread out across the two buildings?
12:05:01 <sbp> hmm: "Strip: You will not like what you see come Tuesday." - Achewood
12:05:07 <jcowan> Indeed.
12:05:43 <jcowan> Or it may have been that the State offices were in only one building, thus presenting the spectacle of a zipcode for *part* of a building.
12:06:26 <jcowan> The WTC was never a commercial success: it took years and years for it to be fully rented, and then only because of the NYS facilities.
12:07:01 <jcowan> I went there one year when for some odd reason my state income tax forms packet didn't arrive -- you could pick them up in the WTC lobby.
12:07:26 <jcowan> In addition, there was a half-price theatre tickets facility there that was handier than the main one in the theatre district.
12:08:43 <jcowan> What's more, IMHO, the buildings were damned ugly and the skyline is better off without them.
12:10:53 <sbp> so I wonder if that would count as having any area? if none of it was touching the ground, and moreover the ground below it actually had a zipcode anyway
12:11:13 <sbp> perhaps it's better to measure them by volume, but...
12:11:37 <sbp> did you ever go higher than the lobby?
12:11:48 * sbp was just reading http://news.com.com/Negroponte+Slimmer+Linux+needed+for+100+laptop/2100-7346_3-6057456.html?tag=nefd.lede
12:12:53 <sbp> hmm: http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/5388 ("Web on a hard drive")
12:15:15 * jcowan read the Negroponte whinge yesterday: apparently he's never heard of lightweight Linux distros, and hopefully he knows better by now.
12:16:27 <sbp> yeah
12:16:33 <sbp> [[[
12:16:34 <sbp> Googling for a table of State sizes in square miles, and dividing that by the count(*) of zips in that state revealed that except for Alaska, the average size of a zip code is 100 sq. miles with a max of 492 sq miles and a std. deviation of 113 sq miles.
12:16:34 <sbp> Alaska has an avg zip code size of 2120 sq. miles.
12:16:39 <sbp> ]]] - http://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=112408
12:16:52 <sbp> apparently I used the land + lakes area; grumble
12:17:07 <sbp> .calc 100 square miles in square kilometres
12:17:09 <phenny> 100 (square miles) = 258.998811 square kilometers
12:17:25 <sbp> <sbp> so the average zipcode covers 326.821106 km sqare
12:17:44 <sbp> .calc 9,161,923 / 29,470
12:17:47 <phenny> 9 161 923 / 29 470 = 310.88982
12:17:49 <sbp> (using the land figure from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html)
12:18:16 <sbp> .calc 310.88982 / 0.241046952
12:18:20 <phenny> 310.88982 / 0.241046952 = 1 289.74798
12:18:24 <sbp> .calc 258.998811 / 0.241046952
12:18:26 JibberJim has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:18:27 <phenny> 258.998811 / 0.241046952 = 1 074.47453
12:18:45 <sbp> so it could be 1/1290 or 1/1074 of a zipcode...
12:20:35 <jcowan> I did go higher, yes; indeed, I ate on the lower level of Windows on the World (where you don't need jacket+tie) once, though I never went up to the observation roof.
12:20:57 <sbp> cool
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12:56:21 * jcowan chuckles at "Goat strip Finnlambs!" (9.27), which he never noticed before but which is palpably "God save Finland".
12:56:32 <jcowan> with an allusion to the parable of the sheep and the goats.
12:56:49 <jcowan> oops, wrong channel
13:07:16 <crschmidt> .seen CaptSolo
13:07:19 <phenny> crschmidt: I last saw captsolo at 2006-03-27 19:06:33 UTC on #joiito
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13:43:50 <gromgull> monty?
13:43:50 <Monty> Please go on.
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15:19:09 <wallrazer> SWHACK!
15:19:23 <JibberJim> ATTACK!
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15:21:09 * wallrazer leaps into air in classic swhack-fu-style
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15:36:39 <bancus> .
15:39:51 *** bear is now known as bear_afk
15:52:38 <bancus> phenny, tell crschmidt Shit, sorry, forgot about the bia payment again. It's on its way.
15:52:40 <phenny> bancus: I'll pass that on when crschmidt is around.
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16:20:06 <bancus> heh
16:20:08 <bancus> I feel a bit stupid saying that, because when you're saying something that Richard Stallman and Bill Gates would both agree with, you must be perilously close to tautologies.
16:20:20 <bancus> -- http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html
16:22:20 <bancus> At least, that's the polite way of putting it; the colloquial version involves speech coming out of organs not designed for that purpose.
16:22:27 <bancus> He has such a way with words.
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16:35:47 <Monty> Thank goodness, jcowan_ is back!
16:35:50 <phenny> Be quiet, Monty.
16:35:50 <Monty> Fava beans
16:36:19 jcowan has quit (Nick collision from services.)
16:36:23 *** jcowan is now known as jcowan_
16:36:44 <jcowan> Itty and whonk!
16:36:47 jcowan_ (n=John@mercury.ccil.org) has joined #swhack
16:36:48 <Monty> it's jcowan_!
16:36:56 <jcowan> Bah.
16:37:03 * jcowan goes to kill his useless alter ego.
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16:50:46 <JibberJim> hmm http://www.exe2sea.co.uk/ferry.shtml what does "from easter to 31st October" mean.
16:50:54 <JibberJim> Does that mean it runs on Easter saturday or not.
16:58:51 <wallrazer> whittyonk
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17:07:22 <jcowan> I'd say yes, it does.
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17:37:31 <Morbus> .
17:37:33 <phenny> Morbus: 07:03Z <thelsdj_> ask Morbus what he's playing and if he got any mmo's
17:38:49 <Morbus> phenny, tell thelsdj_ Oblivion, Half-Life 2, and Dungeon Siege II. Sbp and I are probably going to explore Rose Online, and I'm looking into RF Online or City of Heroes/Villains, though I'm months away from attempting anything, as the baby is near, book has started, job is switching, etc., etc.
17:38:52 <phenny> Morbus: I'll pass that on when thelsdj_ is around.
17:40:24 <deltab> who's Rose? is she cute?
17:40:43 <Morbus> Rose Nyland.
17:40:57 <Morbus> I forget what town she's from.
17:41:09 <Morbus> She's a bit naive, but absolutely huggable.
17:43:15 <crschmidt> "Rose's oft-mentioned hometown was St. Olaf, Minnesota, ''the broken hip capital of the Midwest.'' She moved to Miami Beach, Florida after her husband, Charlie, died."
17:43:18 <phenny> crschmidt: 15:46Z <bancus> tell crschmidt Shit, sorry, forgot about the bia payment again. It's on its way.
17:43:18 <JibberJim> Does anyone know what a request to gmail looks like to send an email?
17:44:08 <Morbus> that's right, St. Olaf.
17:44:14 <Morbus> I knew I'd recognize it as soon as I heard it.
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17:57:37 <wallrazer> MORBIE
17:58:59 <Morbus> "'d also like to take the opportunity to thank the Drupal community members who lent their time and expertise in aiding me install, set up, configure and customize this extremely powerful application. A cheer to Morbus Iff, who according to himself is the most evil person in the #drupal-support IRC channel,... " - http://www.jakob-persson.com/siteinfo/
18:00:08 <wallrazer> nice ;-)
18:00:34 <Morbus> wallrazer: that was all based on a bruhuhaha on drupal.org about how i give horrible support, with most people never actually BEING in the IRC channel to know.
18:00:51 <Morbus> http://drupal.org/node/44578
18:02:06 <wallrazer> how was the previous quote related to this bruhaha
18:02:13 <wallrazer> it seemed on the up and up
18:03:59 *** bear_lunch is now known as bear
18:04:13 <Morbus> well, read all the comments.
18:04:18 <Morbus> that's where they do nuts.
18:04:32 <Morbus> so, being so incredibly horrible at support, I encourage people to say that too.
18:04:35 <Morbus> so that it becomes true.
18:04:36 <Morbus> <g>
18:06:36 <wallrazer> heh
18:06:50 <wallrazer> i've always found you to be inordinately pient.
18:06:53 <wallrazer> er, patient
18:07:11 <wallrazer> of cours,e that could be you just waiting evilly for the right time to bite my head off.
18:08:44 <sbp> pient! I made a language called that
18:08:50 <sbp> I think. can't remember the details
18:08:52 * wallrazer puts on his anti-morbus helmet
18:09:01 <sbp> .g pient Sean B. Palmer
18:09:05 <phenny> sbp: http://miscoranda.com/60
18:09:10 <sbp> I think it was a pre-Turtle Turtle
18:09:26 <wallrazer> heh
18:09:29 <JibberJim> rats, it's not working
18:10:12 <sbp> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PieNt
18:12:32 clsn has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:12:56 <jcowan> Eric Raymond in Fudd mode.
18:14:12 danja has quit ()
18:16:17 <jcowan> "You shouldn't be offended by this; by hacker standards, your wespondent is showing you a wough kind of wespect simply by not ignowing you. You should instead be thankful for this gwandmotherly kindness."
18:17:18 * Morbus snickers.
18:25:35 <wallrazer> <chuckle>
18:37:55 <JibberJim> http://mail.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2003-47%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=%3Cscript+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fjibbering.com%2Ftest5.js%22%3EOR+%3Cscript%3Ebooks%3C%2Fscript%3E
18:38:07 <JibberJim> it should now alert your gmail contacts too if you're logged in...
18:38:51 <JibberJim> erm, in fact it seems to be working for me even when I'm not signed it!!!!
18:39:28 <crschmidt> JibberJim: um. what it did was make a gigantic alert that i can't close in firefox
18:39:41 <JibberJim> with your contacts in ?
18:39:42 <JibberJim> or ... ?
18:39:59 <crschmidt> no, with a big <script> url or something
18:40:13 <JibberJim> on windows esc or alt+f4 closes
18:40:21 <crschmidt> yeah, on mac too, thanks
18:40:31 <crschmidt> ah, worked that time
18:40:57 <crschmidt> JibberJim: it'd be nicer to not put them in an alert
18:41:09 <JibberJim> hmm, yeah it looks like if you've never logged in on that browser you get a redirect
18:47:55 <JibberJim> http://mail.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2003-47%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=%3Cscript+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fjibbering.com%2Ftest6.js%22%3EOR+%3Cscript%3Ebooks%3C%2Fscript%3E
18:50:35 *** bear is now known as bear_lunch
18:51:04 <sbp> there is one word in the English language with "ghogr" in it as a substring
18:51:06 <sbp> name it
18:51:21 <sbp> (nobody on #d8uv.com may answer)
18:51:47 <JibberJim> groughogrid
18:51:48 <sbp> (well, they may, but they will thus accrue instant crapbittudeness)
18:51:58 <sbp> heh. groughogrid? what does it mean?
18:52:02 <sbp> .gc groughogrid
18:52:05 <phenny> groughogrid: 0
18:52:16 <JibberJim> The feeling you get when you don't know the answer to a pop quiz question
18:52:20 <bancus> .gc ghogr
18:52:20 <sbp> hehe
18:52:24 <phenny> ghogr: 195
18:52:28 <bancus> .g ghogr
18:52:30 <phenny> bancus: http://www.riifs.org/nashra/nashra30/page21.pdf
18:52:40 <Morbus> troughogreedia - an encyclopedia detailing all the greedy pigs feeding at the corporate troughs of america
18:52:52 <sbp> ooh
18:53:29 <bancus> Do surnames count?
18:53:34 <sbp> nope
18:53:39 <jcowan> beginning with the CEO of Verizon, who gets paid all the more as his company goes down the tubes.
18:53:42 <sbp> unless they're also words
18:54:09 <bancus> :o
18:54:11 <bancus> http://typo.technetium.be/ghhgor
18:54:14 * jcowan is not looking at his d8uv.com tab
18:54:16 <bancus> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
18:54:44 <sbp> ah, then you may also answer. I gave the answer there before thinking of asking the question here
18:55:03 <sbp> [[[
18:55:03 <sbp> For the human visitors,
18:55:03 <sbp> Please notify my when the complete works of William Shakespeare (Or a significant portion of it) appears on this site.
18:55:04 <sbp> ]]]
18:55:18 <sbp> - random words spamtrap page
18:55:29 MoiraA (n=moira@tor/session/x-22d2f0c4c465c0db) has joined #swhack
18:55:34 * jcowan finds with annoyance that /usr/share/dict/words is not included even in a full Cygwin install.
18:55:58 <sbp> yeah...
18:56:10 <JibberJim> but it stops cheating at pop quizes
18:56:30 <sbp> thus perpetuating groughogrid
18:56:54 <bancus> jcowan: it's not in there anyway
18:56:56 <bancus> I already looked
18:57:05 * jcowan sees that.
18:58:33 <Morbus> http://macao.sourceforge.net/ is interesting.
18:58:37 <sbp> it's probably not in the OED, but it's completely valid and by analogy to a well known word
18:58:45 <sbp> has a few hundred results on Google
18:59:05 * jcowan finds that in Cooch Behar, India, a bus is registered to one Narayan Ch. Basak, whose address is
18:59:07 <sbp> there's even a .com domain of it, in the plural
18:59:28 <jcowan> Vill. Ghogr Kulhi, Tufanganj, Cooch Behar.
18:59:40 * jcowan suspects a typo there.
19:00:31 <sbp> what a great address though
19:00:42 <jcowan> "laughogram" meets the conditions: 387 ghits and www.laughograms.com
19:00:47 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Vill. Ghogr Kulhi, Tufanganj, Cooch Behar"
19:00:51 <sbp> yep! well done
19:00:56 <sbp> got it from a domains list?
19:01:11 <jcowan> Nope, just pulled it out of my blowpipe.
19:01:24 <kpreid> What's significant about the address?
19:01:31 <sbp> very well done then
19:01:47 <jcowan> kpreid: the appearance of Ghogr as a word.
19:02:05 <kpreid> ...and...?
19:02:24 <jcowan> Well, clearly the first line of attack when looking for words containing "ghogr" is to investigate Ghogr.
19:02:26 <kpreid> I see "groughogrid" above, but I still don't get it.
19:02:35 <crschmidt> 14:44:49 < sbp> there is one word in the English language with "ghogr" in it as a substring
19:02:38 <wallrazer> you people are weird.
19:02:40 <crschmidt> 14:44:50 < sbp> name it
19:02:44 <Ash> YOU ARE WRIED
19:02:49 * wallrazer recloaks
19:03:10 <kpreid> Oops.
19:03:11 * jcowan is depely distrubed.
19:03:12 * wallrazer decloaks and proton torpedoes tEH A$H
19:03:26 <jcowan> Very good. Ash is always to blame.
19:03:40 <jcowan> OTOH, it's always d8uv's *fault*.
19:03:49 * wallrazer is deeply disrobed
19:04:00 * jcowan moves his glucose meter about, wonders why his mouse cursor remains frozen.
19:04:06 <wallrazer> *d8uv SIGFAULTs*
19:04:22 <sbp> you use a glucose meter as a mouse?
19:04:30 * wallrazer SEGFAULTS over the mispelling
19:04:47 <JibberJim> toughogram - where a hardcase comes round also meets the conditions though shurely?
19:05:25 * jcowan wonders how to put the new battery in his meter, guesses right the first time.
19:05:44 <jcowan> sbp: only unintentionally.
19:06:52 <jcowan> sbp: is laughogram in the OED yet?
19:08:50 <sbp> lemme check
19:09:40 <Ash> what about lolloscope
19:09:46 <Ash> is that in the OED yet
19:09:49 <Ash> if not, please fix
19:09:58 <sbp> closest is "laughsome"
19:10:17 <sbp> Ash: closest is "loll-shraub"
19:10:28 <Ash> sbp: sad
19:10:48 <sbp> "lollification" is in there though
19:10:51 <jcowan> It's "Pkease fix."
19:11:12 <jcowan> Or in full, "The ekk key on my terminak is not working. Pkease fix."
19:12:15 <jcowan> Of course, most of us don't have terminaks any more; we have keyboards, which does not require the ekk key to type.
19:12:50 <sbp> no?
19:13:00 <sbp> coz we cun rebind, innit?
19:14:47 <jcowan> I meant that the word "keyboard" doesn't contain the ketter ekk.
19:16:03 Moira has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:18:03 <sbp> oh, heh
19:18:06 clsn (i=1000@h-66-134-26-207.nycmny83.covad.net) has joined #swhack
19:20:30 <phenny> clsn: 07 Apr 21:47Z <bancus> tell clsn that I got a picture of that ugly Washington Mutual font on my phone, but no idea how to get it off. If he can accept picture messages to his phone, I can send it that way.
19:21:35 <sbp> .calc 21 USD in GBP
19:21:38 <phenny> 21 U.S. dollars = 12.0157922 British pounds
19:21:49 <clsn> phenny, tell bancus my phone accepts picture messages. Number to be discussed.
19:21:51 <phenny> clsn: I'll pass that on when bancus is around.
19:21:54 <jcowan> http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-04-10-music-security_x.htm <-- truly American level of security stupidity
19:22:25 <jcowan> though it happened in the U.K.
19:22:54 <clsn> jcowan: I think I heard that one.
19:23:38 <clsn> Someone finally bought one of my comparing Torah books for full price!
19:23:47 <sbp> jcowan: heh, I found that in my Google News search for Zeppelin stuff
19:24:03 <sbp> clsn: awesome
19:24:25 <clsn> For the New York Public Library, no less. And he wants me to look at a Samaritan text they have so I can tell them where the pages begin and end.
19:25:07 <sbp> clsn: this from lulu? how have you found it?
19:25:34 <jcowan> [[[
19:25:37 <jcowan> 1.3. Definitions
19:25:37 <jcowan> This section is not normative.
19:25:37 <jcowan> This specification distinctively marks terms being defined, and references to definitions. Uses of terms are hyperlinks to the point of definition. An example of a definition:
19:25:37 <jcowan> A flux capacitor is the part of user agents that has the most negative imaginary flux impedance.
19:25:37 <jcowan> An example of use:
19:25:39 <jcowan> When the engines are damaged, user agents typically calibrate the flux capacitor.
19:25:41 <jcowan> ]]]
19:25:49 <jcowan> from a W3C working draft on the Window object in Javascript
19:26:07 * clsn rolls eyes.
19:26:17 <sbp> .g "user agents typically calibrate the flux capacitor"
19:26:20 <phenny> sbp: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/webapi/Window/publish/Window.html?rev=1.7
19:26:33 <jcowan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-Window-20060407/ is the current canonical location.
19:26:52 <clsn> Yes, this is via lulu. lulu.com seems to, well, work. You upload your PDF, design what you want, and they ship books when you order.
19:27:08 <libby> is it cool? what's the quality like?
19:27:16 <jcowan> sbp, crschmidt: if I wrote a blogging module for phenny, would there be any hope of getting the blog publicly (or even publically) visible?
19:27:37 <sbp> clsn: one thing I haven't figured out yet is if colour cover is included in the price of the paperback binding even if all your internal pages are colour
19:27:48 <clsn> The book's quality seems decent. Unfortunately I can only do softcover in my case; their requirements for hardcover are very specific.
19:27:54 <sbp> jcowan: easily so on my end; presumably so on crschmidt's end too
19:28:03 <libby> thanks clsn, I'll ahve to try it
19:28:14 <clsn> I think color cover is included no matter what, because that's the only kind of cover they offer.
19:28:22 <sbp> that's neat then
19:28:28 <clsn> Color internal pages are expensive tho.
19:28:44 <sbp> yeah, so I saw... $0.15 compared to $0.02 for black and white
19:29:04 <clsn> And that adds up *fast*.
19:29:07 <sbp> I thought it'd be useful for printing off huge PDFs I find on the web
19:29:34 <clsn> Hmm... Never considered is as a remote printer. I dunno that it's cost-effective most of the time.
19:29:43 <jcowan> Only for really important shit.
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19:30:08 <sbp> this is, indeed, really important shit
19:30:12 <clsn> Stuff you'd want bound anyway; stuff you wouldn't mind paying a little extra for.
19:30:16 <sbp> yeah
19:30:43 * clsn can probably think of or find some PDFs that fit that description for him. I wonder. though they probably would get antsy if you didn't own the copyright on it,.
19:31:07 <sbp> I found, recently, by complete accident a PDF for a book that was published online for like three weeks in 2000 and then got pulled for legal reasons, and never ever went to print for the same legal reasons
19:31:13 * libby remembers someone created a book out of the w3c rdf specs
19:31:26 <sbp> or, possibly, because the book is of poor quality; I've had conflicting reports
19:31:40 <sbp> libby: ahahaha, I was thinking about that the other day!
19:31:43 <clsn> A book of Unicode character charts would be fun, and probably cheaper than the real one.
19:31:46 <sbp> it was the RDF and RDFS specs
19:31:51 <sbp> and it got published on Amazon even
19:31:53 <jcowan> There would also be the issue of whether lulu would be willing to be liable for a book you don't have copyright on.
19:32:00 <libby> cheesy shovelware!
19:32:02 <sbp> so danbri did this awesome panning review of it calling it chee... yeah!
19:32:04 <sbp> ahahahaha
19:32:10 <libby> hehehe
19:32:23 <clsn> They mention on their user agreement that you have to have the copyright on anything you sell through them.
19:32:27 <sbp> jcowan: oh, I looked into that and found that you can do a "private publish"
19:32:40 <sbp> so only the person who uploaded the thing can buy it
19:32:52 <clsn> You can, but their terms of use probably still wouldn't allow it.
19:32:54 <jcowan> Ah. But even so, they could be liable as a disseminator.
19:33:05 <sbp> oh well, I'd better not do that then
19:33:48 <clsn> Thing is, you'd be trying to use them as something they're not, as a remote printing service. Even though you can print what you're planning to print, it conflicts with their business model.
19:34:11 <sbp> it does?
19:34:23 <libby> why?
19:34:43 <sbp> "Lulu offers POD (print on demand) services"
19:34:50 * jcowan would like to print a scanned book, basically.
19:35:09 <clsn> Their model is selling books that people write.
19:35:11 <sbp> I think print on demand would cover remote printing; I think they make a profit off of every book, no matter who buys 'em
19:35:16 <sbp> oh, I see, legally
19:35:33 <clsn> jcowan: I have several scanned books that could be usefully printed.
19:36:17 <jcowan> There are several scanned books openly available on the net that I currently keep as piles of printout (stapled per chapter, when possible) in a plastic bag.
19:36:23 <clsn> BPJ is sending me scans of the Inaugural Edition of Bell's Visible Speech book, to add to my Visible Speech scanned work collection.
19:36:40 <jcowan> Presumably that's PD, though.
19:36:53 <clsn> I think so; it's pretty old.
19:37:49 <sbp> hmm! "The author grants permission for an individual person to reproduce a single copy for personal use."
19:41:17 <bancus> oh, clsn!
19:41:19 <phenny> bancus: 19:15Z <clsn> tell bancus my phone accepts picture messages. Number to be discussed.
19:41:20 <clsn> I think DJVU is a good format for scanned work, probably better than PDF. Though PDF is better for computer-generated stuff.
19:41:21 <bancus> did you get my phenny gram?
19:41:22 <bancus> k
19:41:25 <clsn> I did.
19:41:26 <bancus> guess so
19:41:39 est (n=est@user-2ivfni6.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
19:41:52 <jcowan> "You're claiming your work is your copyright when you agree to publish it on Lulu."
19:42:18 <jcowan> Fanfic is specifically excluded.
19:42:36 <libby> aw, shame!
19:42:53 Moira (n=moira@tor/session/x-ff70343c559d810b) has joined #swhack
19:42:53 Moira has quit (K-lined)
19:42:53 <Monty> hi Moira, how ya doing?
19:42:55 <sbp> excluded as not being copyrightable? :-)
19:42:55 <clsn> Doesn't stop people from doing it.
19:42:56 <phenny> Monty: shh, don't let anyone know you're around!
19:43:00 <Monty> eventful anal legs was encapsulating honey and scratched heterosexual David Coulthard!
19:43:08 <clsn> But of course, fanfic should be excluded because of the copyright probs.
19:44:32 <jcowan> sbp: excluded as in fanfic authors are infringers, at least according to original authors (though their claim is more than shaky as applied to pure text)
19:53:41 vIkSiT has quit ("Leaving")
19:55:33 <thelsdj_> foo
19:55:35 *** thelsdj is now known as thelsdj_
19:55:35 <phenny> thelsdj_: 17:32Z <Morbus> tell thelsdj_ Oblivion, Half-Life 2, and Dungeon Siege II. Sbp and I are probably going to explore Rose Online, and I'm looking into RF Online or City of Heroes/Villains, though I'm months away from attempting anything, as the baby is near, book has started, job is switching, etc., etc.
19:55:37 schepers has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:55:39 <thelsdj> bar
19:57:59 <sbp> wow. 8.5" x 11" covers have to be 2663 x 3525 pixels
19:58:10 <Morbus> sbp: what are you doing through lulu?
19:58:31 <clsn> In the "bargain" section of the bookstore, I saw something touted as a "digital facsimile" of Gray's Anatomy, the original one from 1858. Nice enough, facsimiles of all the drawings.... But the text couldn't be a true facsimile. How could I tell? I recognized the typeface, and it hadn't been drawn in 1858.
19:58:44 <sbp> I'm interested in publishing this PDF that I have, at the moment
19:58:48 *** bear_afk is now known as bear
19:59:12 <clsn> My wife opines that the ONLY person who would (a) buy that book and (b) recognize it by the font is me.
19:59:12 <sbp> but will also be looking to publish some other stuff later: perhaps a bound version of swhack logs, or miscoranda, or something new that I write just for selling on lulu
19:59:27 <sbp> hehe
20:01:12 <jcowan> Could be, now that SCOTUS has denied copyright in repros of PD documents and other objects.
20:02:27 MoiraA has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:02:45 <jcowan> http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/dl_crosscollex/SearchExecXC.asp
20:03:49 <jcowan> <-- pretty good jpegs
20:03:53 <sbp> jcowan: wait, the what? pardon? "SCOTUS"?
20:04:01 <sbp> the MrSID files are *amazing*
20:04:21 <jcowan> Supreme Court of the United States. Doesn't help you much with all your stuff, because the U.K. uses the "sweat of the brow" doctrine.
20:04:37 <sbp> sweat of the brow doctrine?
20:04:39 <clsn> Hey, those are nice. Ooof, I MUST get out of here. Later.
20:04:48 <sbp> c'ya clsn
20:04:57 <crschmidt> If you're willing to put in a lot of effort, your new work is no longer copyright violation?
20:05:01 <jcowan> That the mere effort of making photos, or of assembling names/addresses/phone #s into a database, produces something copyrightable.
20:05:09 <crschmidt> oh, right.
20:05:15 * crschmidt got it backwards.
20:05:17 <jcowan> e.g. the white pages aren't copyrightable here in the U.S., but in the U.K. they are.
20:05:53 <crschmidt> jcowan: if you were to put together a work collecting whitepages in the US, would you be legally allowed to sell it in the UK?
20:06:28 <jcowan> I think so, since there is no copyright holder to trigger the Berne Convention.
20:06:31 <bancus> I'd guess the answer is yes, and that you'd then own the UK copyright, assuming someone else hadn't already done so.
20:06:34 <sbp> one problem with the beinecke Voynich stuff for lulu purposes is that it's in colour...
20:06:46 <sbp> so welcome to expense land
20:06:46 <jcowan> I think Acrobat Distiller can fix that.
20:06:58 <sbp> fix as in convert to greyscale?
20:07:13 <sbp> I can do that in IrfanView. isn't Acrobat Distiller a pay program?
20:07:26 <sbp> whoops, gotta run. Ghostboat pt. II
20:07:31 <jcowan> Yes, but Lulu strongly recommends that you use it.
20:07:32 MoiraA (n=moira@tor/session/x-a83f57777a9ff0cf) has joined #swhack
20:07:32 <Monty> hi MoiraA
20:07:33 <libby> me too :)
20:07:39 <jcowan> Not just any PDF will print on commercial printers.
20:07:43 <libby> ghostboat rocks!
20:11:05 <thelsdj> ghostboat?
20:11:11 <Morbus> .wik ghostboat
20:11:18 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "ghostboat".
20:11:25 *** mumbles is now known as mumbles-tidey
20:12:17 <thelsdj> no torrents yet, seems like a british show or mini series
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20:23:42 <Morbus> thelsdj: any comments on autoassault?
20:23:44 <Morbus> comes out this friday.
20:23:47 <Morbus> gameplay videos look fun.
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20:28:22 Moira (n=moira@87.236.196.130) has joined #swhack
20:49:42 <thelsdj> Morbus: i played beta a bit, i got bored with it quick, though don't take that as any indictation about how fun it will be, as i get bored VERY quickly with EVERYTHING
20:50:04 <thelsdj> its fun, though not sure if i'd go back to it
20:50:04 <Morbus> heh, apparently, the release has changed a lot from the beta.
20:50:07 <Morbus> from the review i'm seeing.
20:50:12 <Morbus> but, i just nix'd it.
20:50:16 <Morbus> europe folks can't play on american servers.
20:50:21 <Morbus> and i'm looking for something to fiddle with sbp with.
20:50:43 <thelsdj> ah yea that sucks, i'm grabbing rose online to check that out
20:50:58 <Morbus> gamedaily says the game is kiddish.
20:51:59 <Morbus> http://uk.cityofheroes.com/faqs/answer/are_european_players_able_to_play_with_us_players/
20:52:05 <Morbus> everything is like this. pisses me off.
20:52:31 <thelsdj> yea its stupid, i guess they want to not have people complain about lag
20:53:43 <Morbus> hopefully rose online is good.
20:54:29 <thelsdj> my download is so slow because i'm uploading openbsd build to colo :\
20:55:09 Moira has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:55:25 <thelsdj> 25kps upload of 350mb is kinda annoying
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20:59:49 <Morbus> try http://38.118.213.37/gdgtynesgg+/pub2/ROSE_Online/Official_Demos/rose_na.exe
20:59:52 <Morbus> i'm getting 100k there
20:59:56 <Morbus> .er, 200k.
21:00:12 <thelsdj> my download is always slow when uploading full speed
21:01:23 <Morbus> hrm.
21:01:25 <Morbus> this worries me.
21:01:27 <Morbus> http://browse.files.filefront.com/ROSE+Online+Official+Demos/;1325145;/browsefiles.html
21:01:31 <Morbus> there's a NA and EU download.
21:02:12 <thelsdj> possible you could trick by just downloading the same one if all it is is a hard coded server ip or hostname
21:02:25 <Morbus> yeah, i don't see a distinction on their primary site.
21:02:30 <Morbus> but maybe they're sniffing.
21:05:51 <Morbus> hrm.
21:05:55 <Morbus> there does appear to be diff servers.
21:06:00 <Morbus> according to newsbyte on http://www.roseguru.com/forums/index.php?act=portal
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21:08:29 <Morbus> it does appear like they give you a choice though.
21:08:33 <Morbus> unless the client also sniffs.
21:08:34 <Morbus> which would be evil.
21:08:42 <Morbus> but there is a roseeurope.com.
21:11:06 <thelsdj> urg, got my domain names registered with a registrar that charges a ton for renewal
21:11:11 <thelsdj> like $70 for 2 years
21:11:27 <thelsdj> i hate to go through all the hastle of transfering
21:11:40 <thelsdj> and really don't know who i should go with anyways
21:14:33 <bancus> I use godaddy.
21:16:56 <Kragen> i use gandi. godaddy does their best to project a slimy image.
21:17:22 <Kragen> i don't know if they actually are slimy or not. but it doesn't give me a great deal of confidence
21:17:31 <Kragen> gandi has been trustworthy and cheap so far.
21:17:58 <bancus> I've used godaddy for some 4-5 years.
21:18:01 <jcowan> I use godaddy too; most of the complaints about them have been about their web hosting (which I don't use) rather than their DNS service.
21:18:12 <bancus> I don't even use their DNS service.
21:18:12 <est> that's who i use
21:18:15 <Morbus> i think i have one domain with godaddy
21:18:19 <Kragen> est: who?
21:18:25 <bancus> I just buy my domains from them.
21:18:27 <Kragen> so by the way, i'm traveling across the US throughout may and june. anybody up for a visit?
21:18:44 <est> gandi
21:19:04 <est> sure!
21:19:09 <Kragen> heh
21:19:13 <bancus> maybe?
21:19:15 <Kragen> i can visit you before i leave!
21:19:19 <Kragen> bancus: what city and state?
21:19:22 <thelsdj> i recently registered another domain with godaddy so i might as well transfer my 2 others to it just to keep them all together
21:19:24 <bancus> Fontana, CA
21:19:55 <Kragen> is possible
21:20:07 <est> Kragen: will you be visiting nyc?
21:20:42 <Kragen> est: prolly
21:21:00 <Kragen> bancus: we're likely to visit LA due to having family down there
21:21:19 <Kragen> do you have a phone number and email address for contact?
21:21:41 <est> Kragen: well, so will i :)
21:22:55 <bancus> who's we?
21:23:20 * jcowan would be happy to meet with #swhackers who are in NYC temporarily.
21:23:24 <est> Kragen and his bodyguards
21:23:53 <crschmidt> jcowan: I'm thinking I may be there in mid June for a couple days.
21:24:05 <bancus> Because you're so far away?
21:24:13 <Kragen> bancus: me and my wife
21:24:20 <crschmidt> bancus: 4 hours drive
21:24:25 <crschmidt> bancus: it's hardly walking distance
21:24:26 * bancus looks at the distance between boston and nyc
21:24:27 <bancus> ah
21:24:37 <bancus> I routinely drive 2 hour trips.
21:24:40 <Kragen> noted
21:24:49 bjoern_ (n=bjoern@dslb-084-057-240-113.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
21:25:07 <bancus> My girlfriend is moving from Camarillo to Lebec.
21:25:21 <bancus> Which puts her 116 miles away instead of 93.
21:25:39 <Kragen> est: we're thinking NYC sometime around the end of may or beginning of june
21:25:47 <Kragen> bancus: will that be a quicker or slwoer drive?
21:25:53 <bancus> Kragen: unsure
21:26:09 <bancus> but probably slower
21:26:55 <bancus> the freeway that goes north is usually more open, but I'm not sure if it mitigates the greater distance
21:26:55 <est> Kragen: planning anything special for nyc?
21:27:16 DrBacchus (n=rbowen@83.210.48.16) has joined #swhack
21:27:18 <bancus> I typically drive 80-85MPH as it is.
21:27:29 <bancus> Even on a totally open freeway, I won't go that much faster.
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21:34:37 * jcowan represses his New Yorker's sympathy when hearing of anyone moving.
21:34:53 <libby> hm, not sure about the ending og ghostboat sbp
21:36:59 <bancus> heh
21:37:06 <bancus> Is moving a big deal in NY?
21:37:07 <sbp> libby: yeah, me neither
21:37:12 <sbp> I wonder what the book is like?
21:37:18 <bancus> I suppose it'd be more of a pain in the ass, what with all the high-rises.
21:37:20 <sbp> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0440154219/
21:37:42 <libby> it's a book?
21:37:49 <sbp> yep! oh didn't you see Parky?
21:37:55 <libby> no...
21:38:01 <sbp> David Jason was on with Ardal O'Hanlon and Paul Anka the other day
21:38:05 <Morbus> sbp: downloaded rose online, thelsdj and I did.
21:38:08 <libby> heh, cool
21:38:12 <sbp> and he was talking about the story behind Ghostboat
21:38:13 <Morbus> not sure if you want to try it tonight or later this ewek.
21:38:25 <sbp> he was filming Frost and they had to reshoot a scene that had a lot of carnage in it
21:38:35 <sbp> so there were books scattered all over the floor as part of the scene
21:38:55 <sbp> and they told Sir David that he could either go and get a cup of tea or wait ten minutes
21:38:56 <libby> heh
21:39:04 <sbp> so he decided to wait around, and was just kicking the books a bit
21:39:14 <sbp> and he found Ghost Boat, so he picked it up and thought hey, this is pretty good
21:39:17 <Kragen> est: not sure
21:39:35 <sbp> so he nicked it, and covered up the books back in the original order so the props people wouldn't descend on him like vultures
21:39:35 <libby> heh!
21:40:02 * libby watching newsnight now, hoping berlusconi doesn't get back in :-/
21:40:04 <sbp> and read it and decided it'd make a good documentary. I've just been through all the reviews and a lot of them say "this'd make a great movie!"
21:40:08 <sbp> so it's pretty funny
21:40:09 <sbp> yeah
21:40:11 <sbp> saw a bit of that
21:40:23 <sbp> Morbus: cool! is thelsdj going to play too?
21:40:23 <libby> that's very cool
21:40:30 <jcowan> bancus: The point is that nobody moves within NYC unless perforce, because moving involves paying higher rent in most cases.
21:40:43 <Morbus> sbp: I think he's gonna try it along with us, yeah.
21:41:04 <Morbus> sbp: but there *is* a european server, but I don't see any forcing of you to use it, just download the NA client.
21:42:53 raxor has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/undefined]")
21:44:24 <sbp> "Your former classmates cannot find you on LinkedIn, because you have not provided any educational information on your Linkedin profile."
21:44:27 <sbp> OH DEAR WHAT A BUGGER
21:44:31 <JibberJim> what's this Rose thing?
21:44:32 <sbp> BETTER FIX THAT IMMEDIATELY
21:44:43 <Morbus> JibberJim: roseonline.com
21:44:50 <Morbus> roseonlinegame.com
21:46:01 jcowan has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:46:14 <est> sbp: i can never find you on here..because i cant remember your name
21:46:22 jcowan (n=John@mercury.ccil.org) has joined #swhack
21:46:52 <sbp> on #swhack you mean?
21:46:54 <sbp> it's "sbp"
21:47:08 <thelsdj> lol
21:47:10 <est> oh
21:47:14 <est> that's you?
21:47:39 BigJibby (n=matt@149.99.158.26) has joined #swhack
21:48:22 <clsn> sbp: did you get the mail?
21:49:28 Morbus has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:49:35 <clsn> Oh yeah, you did. You wrote back.
21:52:02 DrBacchus has quit ("Suspending laptop. Back later.")
21:52:09 <jcowan> Senders of spam today: Implores J. Blowing, Reheats I. Comprehensibility, Coolest O. Bucketful, and Tabernacle M. Surrendered.
21:53:08 BigJibby has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:53:32 <libby> heh. great names
21:54:11 <libby> "[%from_name%]" ?
21:54:30 <libby> I just get spam from spammers who can't configure their software properly
21:55:31 <est> nono..that's actually his name
21:55:35 <JibberJim> my spam has been swamped by svn checkins these days
21:55:45 <Kragen> libby: yeah, i've been getting that too
22:00:57 <libby> That Q. Whippet
22:01:02 <libby> hm, not that great
22:01:34 <sbp> Q probably stands for "Quick"
22:02:27 <libby> heh
22:03:02 <JibberJim> Quaint
22:04:47 <bjoern_> Monty, dance!
22:04:51 <Monty> very responsible and manuscripts I write just for something copyrightable.
22:05:06 <bjoern_> Monty, dance without copyright!
22:05:08 <Monty> "your tactics are colour cover is me.
22:05:19 <bjoern_> Monty, got it!
22:05:24 <Monty> gunpoint's Murray Walker's overtures magnifies dodgems's equinoctial parallelograms?!
22:05:46 <bjoern_> Monty, that'd be too strange, even for Walker.
22:05:47 <Monty> erm, in convert it lying about?
22:05:57 <bjoern_> Monty, yeah, that's likely.
22:06:00 <Monty> I reckon BBC + escape-capsule = buggery drains, apparently.
22:07:10 * jcowan could have used a buggery drain in his younger days.
22:09:39 <est> :o
22:09:49 * libby finds http://london.pledgebank.com/Sportclubpatrons odd
22:11:41 * JibberJim is rather suspicious
22:12:01 <sbp> yeah, that's kinda eyebrow-raising
22:13:02 <Kragen> this cs 61a webcasting thing is nifty: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/courses/archive.php?seriesid=1906978270
22:13:29 <Kragen> although it's been nearly 6 minutes since the previous one ended and there's still no mp3 download available ;)
22:13:50 <Kragen> and it sort of vaguely looks like you can only get the video stream with realplayer
22:13:51 <sbp> try livewebcast.berkeley.edu?
22:14:44 Morbus (n=morbus@pool-70-16-197-34.man.east.verizon.net) has joined #swhack
22:14:44 <Monty> yo Morbus!
22:15:03 <Morbus> hush, monty, don't let anyone know you're here
22:15:04 <Monty> Do you sometimes wish you were here ?
22:15:11 <clsn> jcowan: Slowly downloading the Voynich Manuscript scans...
22:15:14 <Morbus> Monty: sometimes, yes.
22:15:15 <Monty> me even publically) visible?
22:15:28 <jcowan> The Jpegs, or the full versions?
22:15:46 <clsn> the jpegs, the largest ones. I don't (yet) know what the .SID files are.
22:16:08 <Morbus> sbp: pint.
22:17:16 <sbp> pint?
22:17:22 <Morbus> i'm setting up to play rose.
22:17:31 <bjoern_> "Berlusconi, a fiery politician who has held office for five years, is the longest-serving leader in post-war Italy. Before the election, he said that if Italians voted for the coalition represented by Prodi, they would be voting for communists."
22:17:31 <bjoern_> haha, talk about stating the obvious...
22:17:32 <Morbus> any interest in you doing the same
22:17:41 <bancus> .sid files are c64 music files :P
22:17:57 <JibberJim> .sid files are MrSid files!
22:18:19 wallrazer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:20:00 madewokherd` has quit (No route to host)
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22:21:22 <bjoern_> "He also vowed to give up sex until election day."
22:21:57 <bancus> I bet his wife was thrilled.
22:21:59 pjz (n=pj@66.219.59.183) has joined #swhack
22:22:20 <clsn> I started writing up a page talking *about* the differences between the Samaritan and Masoretic Pentateuch texts, as opposed to my book showing all of them. Might be useful to read some of the high-level impressions of the differences.
22:22:20 <JibberJim> I bet she was, the pool boy is a lot better...
22:22:35 <JibberJim> .wn masoretic
22:22:40 <phenny> masoretic 1. of or relating to the Masorah
22:22:40 <JibberJim> .wn pentateuch
22:22:43 <phenny> pentateuch 1. the first of three divisions of the Hebrew Scriptures comprising the first five books of the Hebrew Bible considered as a unit
22:22:49 <JibberJim> thanks phenny big help
22:22:54 <JibberJim> I got that one!
22:22:56 <sbp> .calc 2663 * 3525
22:22:59 <phenny> 2 663 * 3 525 = 9 387 075
22:23:23 <clsn> Well, Masoretic is a sorta macaronic word. It's English inflection on a Hebrew root (Masora). Kinda like Númenorean.
22:24:38 <Morbus> sbp: installing now
22:25:07 <sbp> oh so I suppose you want me to install now too?
22:25:07 <clsn> (macaronic. What a great word. Pepe Le Pew cartoons are macaronic)
22:25:08 <sbp> WELL FINE
22:25:11 <Morbus> heh.
22:25:19 <Morbus> i haven't even made an account yet on their site.
22:25:23 <Morbus> just make sure you do all NA all the time.
22:25:37 <sbp> NA?
22:26:13 <Morbus> the north american download, i'm presuming.
22:26:15 <Morbus> at roseonlinegame.com.
22:26:32 <sbp> oh, gotcha
22:26:53 <sbp> jcowan: what's "April hath put a spirit of youth in everything" from? it's attributed to Shakespeare a lot, but I can't find the source
22:27:42 * sbp gets ftp://38.136.124.7/rosena/rose_112_112_NA.exe
22:27:43 est_ (n=est@user-2ivfmum.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #swhack
22:27:59 <jcowan> It certainly sounds Elizabethan, but rings no bell with me.
22:28:05 * jcowan cannot and will not salivate at it.
22:28:37 <sbp> it's used in lots of "dude, the seasons" quote files
22:28:46 <sbp> but I reckon that April was a girl, or lady if you will
22:29:31 <sbp> Morbus: do you have the installer for WinXP?
22:29:37 <sbp> might be quicker if you put it up somewhere for me
22:29:49 <Morbus> rose_112_112_NA.exe is what i grabed.
22:29:57 <sbp> and you have it, right? :-)
22:30:05 <Morbus> http://feast-or-fa.mine.nu:8888/~morbus/rose_112_112_NA.exe
22:30:09 <sbp> thanks!
22:30:38 <Morbus> i dunno hwo quick it'll be.
22:30:44 <Morbus> after installing it, it's downloading a ton of updates too
22:30:51 <Morbus> i'm working on creating an account on their site now.
22:31:00 <sbp> 0% [ ] 1,003,584 59.23K/s ETA 2:14:35
22:31:03 <sbp> pretty quick
22:31:13 <sbp> wait
22:31:15 <sbp> ...
22:31:18 <sbp> what the hell
22:31:20 <sbp> that's huge!
22:31:48 <jcowan> It's an ellipsis of lines 2-3 of Sonnet 98, sbp.
22:31:53 <sbp> I was reading that as minutes:seconds:hundredths until...
22:31:56 <sbp> ah, thanks jcowan!
22:32:02 <jcowan> [[[
22:32:03 <jcowan> From you have I been absent in the spring,
22:32:03 <jcowan> When proud-pied April, dress'd in all his trim,
22:32:03 <jcowan> Hath put a spirit of youth in every thing,
22:32:03 <jcowan> That heavy Saturn laugh'd and leap'd with him.
22:32:03 <jcowan> Yet nor the lays of birds, nor the sweet smell
22:32:05 <jcowan> Of different flowers in odour and in hue,
22:32:07 <jcowan> Could make me any summer's story tell,
22:32:09 <jcowan> Or from their proud lap pluck them where they grew:
22:32:11 <jcowan> Nor did I wonder at the lily's white,
22:32:13 <jcowan> Nor praise the deep vermilion in the rose;
22:32:15 <jcowan> They were but sweet, but figures of delight,
22:32:17 <jcowan> Drawn after you, you pattern of all those.
22:32:19 <jcowan> Yet seem'd it winter still, and you away,
22:32:21 <jcowan> As with your shadow I with these did play.
22:32:23 <jcowan> ]]]
22:32:25 <jcowan> Looks like the month is what's meant.
22:32:36 <sbp> and it's male, what's more!
22:32:39 <jcowan> Not clear whether "his" is masculine or neuter, though.
22:32:46 <sbp> oh right
22:33:26 <Morbus> sbp heh, yeah, its 400+
22:33:44 <sbp> bet I'm not going to have enough space for this again. grumble
22:34:05 <sbp> it doesn't seem to say how much is required
22:34:26 <jcowan> 9 instances of "its" in Gutenberg's Shaks, none in their KJV.
22:35:01 <sbp> hmm
22:35:04 <Morbus> lemme check.
22:35:11 * sbp wants a utf-8 first folio
22:35:13 <Morbus> oh joy, windows crappy wireless booted me again.
22:35:13 * jcowan is shockingly ignorant about the Sonnets, with a few exceptions.
22:35:54 <Morbus> sbp: 899 megs
22:36:01 <sbp> okay, that should work
22:36:01 <jcowan> such as 129, 130, 73.
22:36:21 <sbp> and, now, 98
22:36:47 <jcowan> 130 is Gale's and my personal sonnet.
22:37:34 <jcowan> Oh yeah, 135 is pretty familiar too.
22:38:48 <Morbus> sbp, good news: while the game is patching, if you force quit and restart, it, gasps, autorestarts where it left off.
22:39:03 <sbp> heh
22:39:37 <bancus> your personal sonnet?
22:39:42 <bancus> Shit, I knew you were old, but...
22:39:42 <jcowan> No instances of "its" in the sonnet.
22:39:44 <bancus> :P
22:39:53 * jcowan makes the yehahahahah noise.
22:40:00 <bancus> what noise?
22:40:12 <jcowan> Some couples have "our song" (including us); some have "our sonnet".
22:40:20 <bancus> sure.
22:40:27 <bancus> But "my personal sonnet"
22:40:29 <jcowan> Well, try laughing and saying "yehahahaha" at the same time, and see what comes out.
22:40:48 <jcowan> sbp: I meant to say, no instance of "its" in the Sonnets.
22:40:58 <GabeW> sbp: you around?
22:41:01 <phenny> GabeW: 11:11Z <crschmidt> tell GabeW 1. I don't run phenny, sbp does. 2. See http://swhack.com/logs/2006-04-10#T11-13-45 . 3. Code's at http://inamidst.com/phenny/ , from which it's really pretty easy to run your own phenny until or unless sbp does something to run multiple instances
22:41:12 <sbp> no instance in the modern editions of the printed version...
22:41:18 <sbp> who knows about the originals, sadly
22:41:35 libby has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:42:13 <sbp> I know 145 because of this: "One of Shakespeare's sonnets, number 145, has been claimed to make reference to Anne Hathaway; the words 'hate away' may be a pun (in Elizabethan pronunciation) on 'Hathaway'."
22:42:54 <bancus> Anne Hathaway being...
22:43:00 <sbp> GabeW: does that answer your question? :-)
22:43:03 <sbp> bancus: Shakespeare's wife
22:43:07 <GabeW> so, sbp, I'm curious (from a technical POV) what this limit is for phenny - is this freenode-imposed?
22:43:10 <bancus> ah
22:43:16 <sbp> yeah, it's a Freenode server limit
22:43:19 <GabeW> ah
22:43:40 <GabeW> so you could run multiple bots and then "link" them together outside freenode
22:43:54 <sbp> yeah, that's the plan
22:44:02 <GabeW> cool
22:44:05 <bancus> or make one backend and multiple bots
22:44:15 <sbp> see crschmidt's point 2 for more details; we discussed it a bit
22:44:17 <bancus> unify the DBs
22:44:17 <GabeW> aah
22:44:18 <GabeW> ok
22:44:34 <sbp> there's also some other discussion of it way back when in the logs
22:44:38 <GabeW> ok
22:44:43 <sbp> I get fairly frequent join requests, so it comes up often :-)
22:44:53 <GabeW> I'm still an IRC nut, and I think bots make IRC much much better
22:44:54 <sbp> so it won't slip off my rader...
22:44:58 <sbp> aye
22:45:13 <GabeW> and I'm in the process of getting a bunch of folks interested in digital identity on IRC
22:45:27 <GabeW> but I would like them to have good infrastructure supporting them
22:45:33 <GabeW> jibot, phenny, some log-bot, etc
22:45:37 <jcowan> "Every time I fill a vacant office, I make ten malcontents and one ingrate." --Louis XIV
22:45:47 <nsh> .ety ingrate
22:45:50 <phenny> "1393, originally an adj. meaning 'unfriendly,' from L. ingratus 'unpleasant, ungrateful,' from in- 'not' + gratus 'pleasing, beloved, dear, agreeable.' The noun meaning 'ungrateful person' dates from 1672." - http://etymonline.com/?term=ingrate
22:46:05 <nsh> .ety grateful
22:46:08 <phenny> "1552, from obsolete adj. grate 'agreeable, thankful,' from L. gratus 'pleasing' (see grace). 'A most unusual formation' [Weekley]." - http://etymonline.com/?term=grateful
22:46:10 <sbp> jcowan: what's the date on that quote?
22:46:27 <jcowan> It's probably apocrapful.
22:46:33 <sbp> heh
22:46:46 <sbp> especially since he didn't speak English
22:46:47 * sbp ducks
22:46:49 <jcowan> Sam: Johnson attributed it to an unspecified French statesman, and quotes it in French:
22:46:56 thelsdj has quit (Connection timed out)
22:47:04 <jcowan> J'ai fait dix mecontents et un ingrat
22:47:26 <sbp> sounds more plausible in his hands then
22:47:30 <sbp> or he could've invented it...
22:47:34 <GabeW> Hmm
22:47:40 <GabeW> I wish I had a lot of time to mess with phenny...
22:47:43 <GabeW> er
22:47:47 <GabeW> phenny-like bot rather
22:47:51 <sbp> or the attribution to Johnson having attributed it to someone might be invented
22:48:26 * JibberJim is getting worryingly addicted to spider solitaire
22:48:51 <jcowan> Oho. Voltaire: Toutes les fois que je donne une place vacante, je fais cent mecontens et un ingrat, and he *was* referring to Louis XIV.
22:49:00 <jcowan> Note "cent" not "dix"
22:49:00 est has quit (Connection timed out)
22:49:04 * GabeW gets VC funding for the mother-of-all-phenny-clones
22:49:06 <GabeW> heh
22:49:32 * sbp sues for... remembers GabeW is a lawyer-type-person
22:49:36 <GabeW> HAHAHA
22:49:43 <GabeW> oh, I'll cut you in, dude!
22:49:47 <sbp> whoo!
22:49:52 <sbp> antilawsuit!
22:49:56 <sbp> all bow before phenny!
22:50:02 <JibberJim> that's okay sbp sueing a lawyer is fine - the jury are immediately on your side!
22:50:04 <bjoern_> haha, stupid brains, use swap magic to get my MPs even though my party member just had 1 MP... now he's got 45 MP!
22:50:11 <jcowan> "Possession is said to be nine points of the law, *but that's not saying how many points the law might have.*" --Thomas A. Cowan
22:50:19 <GabeW> JibberJim: I'm not a lawyer, fortunately
22:50:23 <bjoern_> which is very useful, since I shouldn't really be in the Mysidian Cave ...
22:50:28 * jcowan read MP as "members of Parliament" there.
22:50:32 <sbp> JibberJim: heh, heh
22:50:34 <JibberJim> bjoern_, are you lost?
22:50:43 <bjoern_> and I'm low on potions, elixirs, and everything
22:51:03 * sbp is still reading it as Members of Parliament
22:51:08 * Morbus plugs into wired network.
22:51:09 <sbp> especially given "party"
22:51:12 <Morbus> sbp: what speeds you getting from me?
22:51:15 <sbp> lots of parties in the Houses of Parliament
22:51:16 <bjoern_> In a way, yes. I really wanted to get to Deist
22:51:23 <JibberJim> I've got a lot of annoying 8's out but no 9's
22:51:26 <JibberJim> so it's a bit tricky
22:51:36 <sbp> 16% [====> ] 80,264,088 60.15K/s ETA 1:49:50
22:51:40 <jcowan> So, are we Accelerationists or Deicrats here?
22:51:50 <Morbus> hrm. not bad, i guess.
22:52:07 <Morbus> my wireless kept flaking uot on xp, so i wired in.
22:52:17 <Morbus> anyone else using a) bootcamp or b) generically, windows xp wireless?
22:52:19 <sbp> we are... er...
22:52:33 <bancus> I'm using win xp wireless
22:52:39 <bancus> no problems with it, really
22:52:41 <Morbus> bancus: does it flake out on you all the time?
22:52:44 <bancus> nope
22:52:47 <Morbus> really? man, i can't stay connected more than 10m.
22:52:54 <sbp> -> Amazon.com: Lord of Light: Books: Roger Zelazny
22:53:05 <GabeW> sbp - thanks for getting back to me on phenny-fu
22:53:09 <bancus> I used to have problems with a node that's a bit far away
22:53:22 * JibberJim uses winxp wireless
22:53:25 <Morbus> there are three nodes in my neigborhood, but i'm only using my own.
22:53:27 <bancus> currently my AP is about 5 feet from my antenna, so I've got a good strong signal
22:53:28 <Morbus> the other two are protected.
22:53:29 <sbp> we are all Accelerationists, except for Monty
22:53:30 <Monty> cheesy shovelware!
22:53:31 <jcowan> "National branding campaigns can fail. Look how rapidly the UK's 'Cool Britannia' -- which had its genesis in a line from a [Ben & Jerry's] ice-cream carton -- was shelved, and Britain went back to being the land of beefeaters, warm beer, and a dysfunctional royal family."
22:53:41 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<Monty> cheesy shovelware!"
22:54:39 <nsh> .swhack shovelware
22:54:52 <jcowan> Not archived yet, probably.
22:55:05 <phenny> nsh: http://swhack.com/logs/2005-10-05#T14-13-07
22:55:33 <sbp> seriously one of the funniest things ever
22:55:42 <sbp> I think I asked danbri if he still had it around somewhere
22:55:49 <sbp> but I don't think he did when I asked, which was in like 2002
22:55:56 <sbp> but I might have it archived, somewhere...
22:56:41 * nsh nods
22:56:44 <sbp> ah!
22:56:49 <sbp> it still exists!
22:56:52 <sbp> but it's anonymous now
22:56:54 <sbp> that's a shame
22:57:31 <sbp> [[[
22:57:36 <sbp> Cheesy piece of shovelware!, January 30, 2001
22:57:40 <sbp> As the alleged author of this book I'd just like to distance myself from this cheesy piece of shovelware. Spend the money on a printer instead. Or a better monitor. Or some cheese and a shovel. While W3C specs are available under a liberal license, this "book" is pushing at the limits of polite behaviour. I found out I was named on the cover via Amazon. If I ever get around to writing a book, it won't have been this one...
22:57:46 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595132308/
22:57:48 <sbp> wonderful
22:58:02 <nsh> rofl
22:58:11 thelsdj (n=thelsdj@24-116-69-69.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #swhack
22:58:11 <Monty> howdy, thelsdj
22:58:45 <Morbus> thelsdj: sbp and i are workign on rose.
22:58:47 * jcowan just read the Daily WTF and can't re-elevate his jaw.
22:58:50 <Morbus> i'm downloading patches, he's downloading exe
22:59:21 <clsn> jcowan: hmm?
22:59:53 <jcowan> http://www.thedailywtf.com/forums/67765/ShowPost.aspx <-- "It depends on your definition of true"
23:00:53 <thelsdj> my exe download failed and trying to get it to retry hah
23:01:02 <Morbus> i'm enjoying the UI pictures in the previous post more.
23:01:12 <Morbus> thelsdj: well, i'm hosting a local copy that you can snag after sbp ;
23:01:12 <Morbus> )
23:01:29 schepers has quit (No route to host)
23:01:34 <thelsdj> k heh, might as well just wait until this rsync up is finished so i get good time
23:02:13 <clsn> They say that if you tried to redefine nil in some old version of LISP, it would respond "Nothing lasts forever." And if you tried to redefine t, it would say something like "Truth is eternal" in Latin.
23:02:30 <nsh> awesome
23:03:03 <clsn> Might even be true.
23:03:25 <jcowan> I doubt it. Old Lisp systems used the null pointer (all bits 0) for NIL.
23:03:30 <sbp> python winz
23:03:30 <sbp> >>> True, False = False, True
23:03:30 <sbp> >>> True, False
23:03:30 <sbp> (False, True)
23:03:30 <sbp> >>>
23:03:41 <jcowan> Although perhaps the magic is in the definer.
23:03:49 <sbp> I should eval a \xHH escaped version of that at the top of all my code
23:03:53 <sbp> muwhahahahahaLAhgaahahaha!
23:04:25 <jcowan> "Love is rare / life is strange / Nothing lasts / people change"
23:05:11 <jcowan> http://jbonline.terra.com.br/inter/musicali/especiais/renatorusso/lp_13.html#old
23:05:18 <thelsdj> what is 'null' in python?
23:05:28 <Kragen> a NameError
23:05:30 <jcowan> Null, or Nothing, or None, or some such word.
23:05:49 <Kragen> you should use None instead
23:06:11 <jcowan> Perhaps Nil would be useful.
23:06:31 * jcowan used to use this macro in his C:
23:06:45 <thelsdj> i think i had read that redefining python's None used to print a funny error message
23:06:46 <jcowan> #define null(t) ((t)NULL)
23:10:39 <thelsdj> hrmm anime overload
23:10:49 <thelsdj> watched about 4 hours of anime since yesterday and got a few more to go
23:12:43 <Kragen> are you hosting a con?
23:12:49 <clsn> Heh. http://www.lasikathome.com/
23:13:03 <thelsdj> no haha, just hadn't watched anime in a while, getting my fix
23:14:05 <jcowan> That's scary, clsn.
23:14:34 <JibberJim> rats I can't order :-(
23:14:39 <JibberJim> I get POST not supported :-(
23:14:49 * JibberJim thinks it might be a spoof
23:15:34 * jcowan is pretty sure it better be a spoof, but is worried that some people may not think so -- the difference between a spoof and a scam on the net is small.
23:16:01 <clsn> It's a spoof.
23:16:15 <clsn> I found it from snopes' article saying it was a joke.
23:16:47 <jcowan> Good.
23:17:15 <Morbus> woot, patch completed.
23:17:21 * Morbus logs into rose online.
23:18:08 *** bear_dinner is now known as bear
23:18:34 <Morbus> hrm. the only server available to me is Leonis (thelsdj, sbp)
23:20:00 <Morbus> ah, we get to choose start points too. I'm arbitrarily choosing Wisdom - you two will have to as well, I suspect. (thelsdj, sbp)
23:25:47 jcowan has quit ("Bailing out")
23:28:48 <JibberJim> choose stupidity!
23:32:43 <Morbus> i have to kill 6 jelly beans now
23:32:48 <thelsdj> Morbus: gimme url to download when available, finally finished my upload
23:32:53 <sbp> off to bed, download is still miles from done
23:32:58 <sbp> so thelsdj can have it now
23:33:11 <sbp> will it still be there tomorrow for me to wget -c?
23:33:19 <Morbus> yep
23:33:23 <Morbus> its kinda interesting.
23:33:23 <sbp> thanks
23:33:26 <sbp> c'ya!
23:33:28 <Morbus> i'm level two already, just from the tute island
23:33:44 <Morbus> http://feast-or-fa.mine.nu:8888/~morbus/
23:33:48 <Morbus> it's in there, thelsdj
23:35:18 <thelsdj> doesn't work, forwards me to a non accessable domain
23:35:45 <thelsdj> moisttowelette.local
23:36:28 <Morbus> you didn't include a trailing slash.
23:37:02 <thelsdj> strange, gnome terminal doesn't copy the slash
23:37:38 *** kpreid changed the topic to: "Kraft Shovelware & Cheese"
23:38:50 <thelsdj> was the only patching you did in-client? or was there another download file for patch?
23:38:58 <Morbus> inclient
23:43:12 <thelsdj> speed wasn't too good to you, getting 300+kps from download.com
23:43:39 <Morbus> yeah
23:43:51 <Morbus> i'm level 3 now and working on the final quest in the training area.
23:46:15 <Morbus> woo, i'm amazon lady now
23:58:04 <bjoern_> mwhaha, I obtain 1000 Gil from the chest!
23:59:46 <Morbus> which chest?