Swhack! 22 June 2009

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00:05:36 <[bjoern]> .gcs "Caucasian porn" "Asian porn"
00:05:37 <phenny> "Asian porn" (592,000), "Caucasian porn" (266)
00:06:08 <[bjoern]> Size matters, just not the way you think it does?
00:06:37 ephemerian has quit ("Leaving.")
00:07:57 <kpreid> Is there a document somewhere for "How to read something miswritten in Symbol font"?
00:08:19 <[bjoern]> HTML Tidy has code fixing that
00:08:40 <[bjoern]> Might need like <font name=Symbol> or whatever
00:09:27 <[bjoern]> Apparently it's disabled these days
00:09:38 <[bjoern]> streamio.c / Symbol2Unicode and DecodeSymbolFont
00:10:08 <kpreid> just tried it, didn't have an effect
00:10:14 <[bjoern]> not sure why, but looks like I worked on it...
00:10:34 <kpreid> well, the table would be not so useful because I'm primarily interested in reading a document
00:12:01 <[bjoern]> Get a symbol font copy...
00:15:12 <kpreid> heh. trouble is I've *got* Symbol, but a not-misencoded version :)
00:20:40 <[bjoern]> .gc "vanish or parish"
00:20:41 <phenny> "vanish or parish": 0
00:20:54 <[bjoern]> there used to be a geocities page for the mapping...
00:24:16 <[bjoern]> .gc "vanish or perish"
00:24:16 <phenny> "vanish or perish": 8
00:24:23 <[bjoern]> night
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09:22:13 <sbp> yo
09:22:13 <phenny> sbp: 01:31Z <nslater> tell sbp http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML
09:28:41 <sbp> emacs. idiots. seriously
09:29:03 <sbp> apparently python-mode (only python-mode) turns on syntax highlighting unconditionally as a design decision
09:29:25 <sbp> because of... you guessed it: laziness!
09:29:29 <sbp> “so that text properties marking strings and comments can be maintained with greater ease than otherwise”
10:03:07 <sbp> ten new speaker candidates
10:05:57 <sbp> woah, Sir Patrick Cormack is standing
10:06:40 * Arnia goes to the bank to beg for money
10:08:54 <sbp> crap, I should've written to my MP expressing my preference
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10:11:25 <sbp> not that it appears my MP, a staunch factionalist party peon, would listen
10:14:25 <sbp> worrying that Margaret Beckett is the bookies' favourite
10:15:41 <sbp> Sir Alan Beith or Sir Patrick Cormack both seem reasonable choices
10:15:54 <sbp> Ann Widdecome would of course be the comic choice par excellence
10:19:47 <sbp> hmm, I can phone my MP's office
10:24:25 cre8radix (n=Danny@i59F7401F.versanet.de) has joined #swhack
10:28:11 * sbp rings
10:28:14 <sbp> the number is busy
10:31:39 <sbp> “I will let her know”
10:32:11 <sbp> I said I'm concerned that my MP may vote for a partisan candidate, and that I would rather her vote for a non-partisan candidate such as Sir Alan Beith or Sir Patrick Cormack
10:32:39 <sbp> that I've been following recent events, obviously, and as a constituent I'd rather Parliament be handled in a non-partisan manner by as balanced and experienced a candidate as possible
10:32:59 [bjoern] (n=bjoern@dslb-094-223-152-234.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
10:33:05 <sbp> and that Sir Patrick Cormack especially has represented himself well in the debate about the speaker, with his reference to the Norway debate and so forth
10:33:09 <[bjoern]> yo
10:33:35 <sbp> and that though I understand that I'm only one constituent, I've felt moved enough to contact my MP for the first time over this matter, and would be grateful if my message and view could be passed on
10:33:37 <sbp> yo [bjoern]
10:34:00 <sbp> and he said he's grateful for my ringing and that he's sure [my MP] will be grateful too; and that he will let her know, as I say
10:34:23 <cre8radix> heya
10:34:41 <sbp> hey cre8radix
10:34:48 <sbp> surprisingly he didn't ask for my name or contact details
10:35:00 <cre8radix> yo sbp
10:35:09 <sbp> because you're not allowed to contact other MPs about Parliamentary issues
10:35:21 <sbp> so they're meant to check. I did say that I'm an [Area] constituent though
10:35:53 <sbp> and I suppose on the phone it would be hard to prove who I am anyway
10:36:08 <sbp> same with letters and email; you'd need proper identity documents
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10:44:18 <hunterp> conscious life?
10:44:34 <sbp> see the topic
10:45:01 <[bjoern]> You can either be alive, or concious, but not both at the same time.
10:45:22 <hunterp> I want to make a bookmarklet. anyone done ?
10:46:14 <[bjoern]> I've put up some information on this url: javascript:alert('maybe')
10:46:46 <hunterp> oh bookmarklets are javacsript
10:46:50 <hunterp> nice
10:46:50 <sbp> hehe
10:46:51 <sbp> yeah
10:47:08 <[bjoern]> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8093946.stm
10:47:09 <phenny> [bjoern]: BBC NEWS | South Asia | Indian sex workers learn karate
10:47:20 <sbp> so you can either create a dummy bookmark and then change the URI (perhaps in the interface for creating the bookmark, or later in the context menu for the bookmark)
10:47:28 <hunterp> now the question of the day....
10:47:38 <sbp> or you can create an HTML page with the javascript link in the page, and then drag it to your bookmark bar or use the context menu on the link to bookmark it
10:47:39 <[bjoern]> "Schumacher 'revealed' as the Stig"
10:47:54 <sbp> [bjoern]: that's what I was so up in lols about last night
10:48:06 <hunterp> is, can the state of the bookmarlet be maintained independant of the pages? eg, can I create a web crawler from the bookmarklet?
10:48:13 <sbp> it was absolutely hilarious
10:48:29 <sbp> hunterp: if you can do it in javascript, you can do it in the bookmarklet
10:48:35 <[bjoern]> We should not have genetically engineered them wings http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8112062.stm
10:48:38 <sbp> .title
10:48:39 <phenny> sbp: BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Crocodile causes helicopter crash
10:48:50 <sbp> maybe it was falling from the moon
10:48:52 <deltab> hunterp: no, but Jetpack probably can
10:48:55 <hunterp> sbp: there was some nice mathematical statement in your setance :- )
10:49:12 <hunterp> deltab: your statement logically negates sbp's . confer amongst yourseves maybe ?
10:49:31 <[bjoern]> Ah from the moon tear, like most of the monsters on earth. Quite possible!
10:49:35 <deltab> bookmarklets run within the page environment
10:49:53 <hunterp> deltab: but I can use sjax :-)
10:50:08 <hunterp> and since ALL i want to crawl is on the same domain
10:50:11 <sbp> my statement was entirely compatible with deltab's
10:50:20 <hunterp> i should be able to create a domain specific webcrawler in a bookmarklet
10:50:25 <sbp> he was saying you can't store things in anything but the page environment
10:50:39 <sbp> but you could, for example, call out to a remote server
10:50:41 <sbp> to store things there
10:50:57 <hunterp> dunno, that might violate the security model
10:51:00 <deltab> but only if the page has access
10:51:03 <sbp> right
10:51:08 <sbp> you can configure security settings locally
10:51:15 <sbp> you can actually even write to disk from javascript
10:51:19 <[bjoern]> haha http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8112051.stm
10:51:22 <sbp> but of course you have to give crazy access rights for that
10:51:32 <sbp> but that's how, for example, TiddlyWiki works
10:51:36 <[bjoern]> "They are also seeking the return of body parts they say were stolen in 1918 or 1919 by a secret society at Yale University known as Skull and Bones."
10:51:50 <[bjoern]> "This refers to long-standing allegations that members of the Skull and Bones Society, including Prescott Bush, the grandfather of George W Bush, broke into Geronimo's tomb and stole his skull and other bones to keep in their clubhouse in New Haven."
10:52:47 <sbp> the next sentence was the most interesting
10:52:49 <sbp> “Yale University has repeatedly said it does not have Geronimo's remains and does not speak for the Skull and Bones Society.”
10:53:01 <sbp> <Yale> we do not have Geronimo
10:53:08 <sbp> <Yale> we do not speak for Skull and Bones
10:53:15 <sbp> so... Skull and Bones might have them? or what?
10:53:34 <[bjoern]> Yes, but I was thinking perhaps the lawsuit names Yale as defendant or something
10:55:23 <[bjoern]> "Explaining that Americans are far less willing than students from developing economies like India, China, and Brazil to master the 'boring' details of tech process and methodology, the HCL chief added that most Americans are just too expensive to train."
10:57:44 <sbp> they require too much pizza
11:03:52 <nelix> geronimo pizza
11:04:06 <[bjoern]> "India has not done a damned thing for the USA"
11:04:11 <[bjoern]> "It would be hard to neatly express the USA's $11,400,000,000,000 debt without the zero. Invented in India."
11:04:13 <[bjoern]> "I'd much rather we were $114 in debt."
11:07:41 <[bjoern]> .gc +fleshlight
11:07:41 <phenny> +fleshlight: 454,000
11:12:54 <[bjoern]> .gs I am selling these fine *
11:12:55 <phenny> I am selling these fine *: leather (21), khergit (3), tapestries (2), leather jackets (2)
11:13:04 <[bjoern]> .gs I am selling these fine khergit *
11:13:05 <phenny> [bjoern]: tapestries)
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11:25:15 <[bjoern]> "We are a society that rewards mediocrity with enthusiasm and teaches every child to be a superstar. The downside to this is that we have a generation of workers who require constant affirmation and a high degree of reward for relatively small amounts of work."
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11:46:00 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/4086_498b_480.jpeg
11:47:01 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/3956_f2b4_480.jpeg
11:47:35 <sbp> Laura Robson doing well in her first match
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11:49:33 <sbp> whoo, she got the first set
11:49:36 <sbp> much cheering
11:50:04 <[bjoern]> What's she doing, purchasing dvds of her favourite tv series?
11:51:56 <sbp> she won the first set, didn't buy it
11:51:59 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/3263_3c5c.jpeg
11:54:15 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/3244_317e_480.jpeg
11:55:57 <Charl> shopped?
12:07:52 <sbp> ooh, and she's broken her serve in the second set
12:08:31 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/1744_ec12.jpeg
12:10:40 <[bjoern]> dontclick http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/1674_c61c.jpeg
12:13:26 <[bjoern]> http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/06/25-useful-infographics-for-web-designers/
12:17:23 <[bjoern]> this is just wrong http://asset.soup.io/asset/0361/0987_d224.jpeg
12:19:15 <[bjoern]> hmm http://google.com/trends?q=yahoo%2Cgoogle
12:33:02 * Arnia is confused
12:33:22 <Arnia> The letting agent has given me a non-existant address to meet her at
12:33:59 <Arnia> but there is an address which is almost the same (replace 'drive' with 'avenue') which is in the right location
12:34:32 <[bjoern]> so where is the confusion?
12:35:07 <Arnia> Of all the people to know where a house is, I would have assumed it would be the letting agents
12:35:14 <Arnia> Their income sort of depends on it
12:37:57 <Arnia> Mind you, I would have assumed that the Durham branch of NatWest would have had a Graduate Manager, but they don't
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12:44:25 <[bjoern]> http://iht.greenpeace.org/
12:55:16 <sbp> crap, she's losing the third
12:55:21 <nsh> what the hell's a graduate manager?
12:55:40 <nsh> a special bank manager for dealing with graduate students?
12:56:21 <nsh> how much exactly do you think grad students are worth to natwest?
12:56:38 <nsh> i'd be less surprised if they had a Leer-Jet Manager
12:57:27 <[bjoern]> Depends on whether it's a graduating wizard, slut, or robot butt.
12:57:53 cre8radix (n=Danny@i59F7401F.versanet.de) has joined #swhack
12:57:59 <[bjoern]> yo cre8radix
12:58:24 <cre8radix> yoyo [bjoern]
12:58:59 <sbp> nsh: they're worth a lot
12:59:07 <sbp> that's why students get very good discounts and offers
12:59:17 <sbp> because they're usually too lazy to change banks when they graduate
12:59:27 <sbp> so they get good loans, but when they earn the bank gets it back
12:59:52 <nsh> makes sense
13:00:20 <sbp> nsh: see top of /whits/ by the way
13:00:25 <nsh> okeis
13:00:29 <sbp> for Parliamentary funs
13:00:37 <nsh> .g sean b palmer whits
13:00:37 <phenny> nsh: http://inamidst.com/whits/
13:00:38 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
13:00:49 <[bjoern]> .g sean b palmer whits -oxymoron
13:00:49 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://inamidst.com/whits/
13:00:59 <[bjoern]> something's not right there.
13:02:07 <sbp> .py 'oxymoron' in urllib.urlopen('http://inamidst.com/whits/').read()
13:02:08 <phenny> False
13:02:16 <sbp> yes, you has a bugs
13:03:14 <[bjoern]> In that I call out an oxymoron when I see it, and you don't.
13:03:34 <sbp> not quite sure what oxymoron you mean...
13:03:46 <[bjoern]> parliamentary fun for one
13:03:50 <sbp> hehe
13:03:52 <nsh> lights story interesting
13:03:56 <sbp> oh, yeah
13:04:24 <sbp> aw, she lost
13:05:05 <[bjoern]> She can keep the dvd set she won though.
13:05:12 <sbp> yeah...
13:05:39 <sbp> winning your first ever set at Wimbledon on Court 2 at age 15 is good
13:07:16 <[bjoern]> "On May 14, 2008, The Perl Foundation received a philanthropic donation of US$200,000 from Ian Hague. Mr. Hague is a co-founder of Firebird Management LLC, a financial fund management company based in New York City."
13:07:49 <sbp> and an avid PHP programmer?
13:08:39 <[bjoern]> .wik Oxymoron day
13:08:40 <phenny> "A split single released by Dropkick Murphys and Oxymoron in July 1998 on Flat Records." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DKM/Oxymoron_Split
13:10:16 <sbp> vote in 20mins
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13:13:05 <[bjoern]> phenny, "針の上で天使は何人踊れるか"?
13:13:06 <phenny> [bjoern]: "Angels dance on the hands of people?" (ja to en, translate.google.com)
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13:30:28 <sbp> Parliament sitting without Speaker
13:30:37 <sbp> order being called out by the Father of the House
13:31:08 <[bjoern]> .gc stereopope
13:31:09 <phenny> stereopope: 3
13:31:20 <sbp> they'll be speaking (hustings) in lot based order
13:31:25 <sbp> Margaret Beckett first
13:32:24 <[bjoern]> .g 15 billion SFR in USD
13:32:24 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://www.roche.com/gb07e03.pdf
13:32:28 <[bjoern]> .c 15 billion SFR in USD
13:32:28 <phenny> [bjoern]: Sorry, no result.
13:32:49 <[bjoern]> .c 15 billion swiss francs in USD
13:32:50 <phenny> 15 billion Swiss francs = 13.81089 billion U.S. dollars
13:33:13 <[bjoern]> "Symbol CHF, Fr., SFr. (old) "
13:36:11 <[bjoern]> so switzerland is planning it'll cost about 3 billion usd to remove one of its nuclear power plants. the U.S. plans it costs less than 0.5 billion usd to remove one, and of course the energy companies don't even have that money.
13:36:34 <sbp> heh, she mentioned a Quaker apophthegm
13:36:41 <sbp> she said she's never been afraid to speak truth to power
13:37:01 <sbp> she also pointed out that all speakers apart from Speaker Boothroyd have been from the majority party
13:37:05 <[bjoern]> how about when confronting a supposedly all knowing power?
13:37:34 <sbp> Sir George Young
13:37:44 <[bjoern]> for politicians, speaking falsehoods to power is often more important.
13:38:06 <sbp> he's being quite comic
13:38:19 <sbp> very funny
13:38:33 <sbp> "I've always been in the Conservative party, not run by the Conservative party..."
13:39:14 <[bjoern]> Promise redder robes and grayer hair pieces!
13:39:32 <sbp> he's promising a quicker chamber
13:39:49 <sbp> the redder robes and grayer hair pieces might come later
13:40:09 <sbp> quite a good speech so far
13:40:18 <sbp> much better than Beckett's
13:41:39 <[bjoern]> Space for solar thermic power plants needed to power the planet http://www.heise.de/bilder/140504/0/0
13:42:21 <sbp> “we need to recapitalise the House of Commons”
13:42:24 <sbp> bad choice of metaphor...
13:42:40 <sbp> Ann Widdecombe
13:42:49 <sbp> "I think I am unique in this contest..."
13:42:59 <sbp> "...what is unique is that I propose myself as an interim speaker"
13:43:02 <Arnia> Ann Widdecombe is just unique
13:43:13 <sbp> yeah. there was much interruption at the point of ellipsis
13:43:17 <[bjoern]> perhaps he meant "we need to decapitate"
13:43:29 <sbp> Sir George Young got a bit hear, hear, by the way
13:43:33 <sbp> bigger than Beckett
13:44:05 <sbp> Widdicombe [as they wrongly spelled it on BBC news] is actually not doing very well
13:44:08 <sbp> pretty flat speech so far
13:44:18 <sbp> oh, they've corrected it now
13:44:19 <[bjoern]> she only wants an interim job
13:45:01 <sbp> she calls herself a vulgar tribune compared to the other senators
13:45:14 <sbp> somewhat different metaphors here to Sir George Young... :-)
13:45:24 <[bjoern]> .gc "when in rome, eat romans"
13:45:25 <phenny> "when in rome, eat romans": 6
13:45:32 <sbp> she argues (being a famous MP) that the Speaker should have public recognisability
13:45:52 <Arnia> "I'm famous, and I want to be more so"
13:46:00 <sbp> yeah, heh
13:46:03 <Arnia> I'd probably use the term 'notorious' actually
13:46:05 <sbp> she would give more power to backbenchers
13:46:09 <sbp> heh, heh
13:46:16 <Arnia> Oh, that's good
13:46:17 <sbp> Arnia: I called the office of my MP earlier, by the way
13:46:22 <Arnia> More power away from whips is good
13:46:25 <Arnia> sbp: o?
13:46:53 <sbp> Arnia: yeah, I expressed my preferences and reasons for my preferences
13:47:03 <Arnia> What did they say?
13:47:05 <sbp> as a constituent, but as a constituent concerned enough to contact my MP about it
13:47:18 <sbp> it was my MP's secretary, and he thanked me and said he will let her know before the vote
13:48:16 <sbp> Widdecome says "we have a real function"
13:48:21 <sbp> and that the public must be convinced about that
13:48:24 <sbp> (by the Speaker)
13:48:31 <[bjoern]> as opposed to a complex function.
13:48:33 <sbp> and that the Speaker needs to clean up the mess
13:48:36 <sbp> she's going on quite a bit
13:48:45 <sbp> should've set an egg timer
13:48:58 <sbp> she says the lower classes should be encouraged to be members
13:49:06 <sbp> well, not in those words. I think she said people of poor means
13:49:25 <sbp> "very few means", she just repeated
13:49:46 <sbp> man. on and on and on
13:49:59 <sbp> "I believe I have broad..." oh±!
13:50:03 <sbp> Sir Alan Beith
13:50:16 <sbp> she got moderate hears, by the way
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13:50:24 <sbp> Sir Alan goes straight into details
13:50:52 <sbp> "today's decision is unusually important"
13:51:06 <sbp> shall we make Parliament more effective, or just do business as usual?
13:51:10 <sbp> if the latter, a huge mistake
13:51:19 <sbp> so, a great reformist
13:51:47 <sbp> he's being moderately comical, quite focussed on his point
13:51:58 <sbp> the house needs to take control of how it uses its time
13:52:00 <sbp> not the government
13:52:21 <sbp> I have a feeling he's being a bit too reformist for the house
13:52:27 <[bjoern]> Given what comes out of that parliament, being more effective sounds almost worse than as business as usual.
13:52:35 <sbp> he's not balancing as much as I thought he would do
13:52:40 <[bjoern]> Perhaps they are using reverse psychology.
13:53:00 <sbp> admin needs to be more open, family and diversity oriented
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13:53:18 <sbp> and he's going into this in some detail...
13:53:30 <sbp> he's balancing detail and overview carefully, quite impressed
13:53:41 <sbp> he wants to reduce the isolation of the Speaker
13:53:52 <sbp> and is careful about the Speaker being a spokesperson
13:54:00 <sbp> needs someone firm, fair, and generally accepted
13:54:03 <sbp> it's not enough to win the vote
13:54:21 <sbp> they must also be accepted by those who didn't vote for them
13:54:29 <sbp> and he thinks he's such a person to get a consensus
13:54:35 <sbp> a soft but strong hear, hear at this
13:55:01 <sbp> John Bercow
13:55:09 <sbp> he's spoofing another MP
13:55:13 <sbp> who said he's too young
13:55:18 <sbp> and that the Speaker should be virtually senile
13:55:27 <sbp> doing an hilarious impression which brings much laughter
13:55:31 <sbp> continuing his impression
13:55:40 <[bjoern]> .wik John Bercow
13:55:40 <phenny> "John Simon Bercow (born 19 January 1963, in Edgware, London) is a British politician." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bercow
13:55:54 <sbp> he's saying young Speakers were common in times gone by
13:55:57 <sbp> a 29 year old Speaker
13:56:03 <sbp> and another young Speaker
13:56:10 <sbp> both of whom went on to become Prime Minister!
13:56:15 <sbp> "not a likely career move in my case!"
13:56:18 <sbp> much choxelles
13:56:31 <[bjoern]> Why don't they just elect whoever has the most followers on twitter?
13:56:35 <sbp> he commits to serve no longer than nine years
13:56:46 <sbp> mentions Sir Thomas More
13:56:53 <sbp> doesn't want to take *his* career path
13:57:02 <sbp> but he was the only member to be canonised, at least...
13:57:06 <sbp> he wants success in this world
13:57:16 <sbp> he doesn't want to be someone, he wants to do something
13:57:22 <sbp> (thought he was going to say: do someone)
13:57:24 <[bjoern]> Yet he became politician
13:57:27 <sbp> yeah
13:57:38 <sbp> Bercow has been dozens of times more funny than Ann Widdecome
13:57:50 <sbp> now he's actually making some proper points
13:58:00 <sbp> slightly shallow though. asking for progress (well of course...)
13:58:20 <sbp> need more than Erskine May knowledge
13:58:23 <[bjoern]> time progresses without us kids meddling with it.
13:58:30 <sbp> though has demonstrated that he knows what he's doing too
13:58:56 <sbp> he says he's got good support (we'll see!)
13:59:09 <sbp> he respects Parliament: neither corrupt nor crooked
13:59:18 <sbp> but too complicated, and mired in secrecy; short on accountability
13:59:28 <sbp> mentions the Sir CK recommendations...
13:59:45 <sbp> members and taxpayers must be both treated properly
13:59:49 <sbp> he can strike that balance
14:00:08 <sbp> he's quite a here and now person, I notice
14:00:21 <sbp> he's speaking a lot about the current crisis, not so much about general objectives
14:00:56 <sbp> his views seem quite centrist and bland
14:01:30 <sbp> going on about being an advocate and ambassador of the house
14:01:37 <sbp> rather, of parliament
14:01:44 <sbp> they've been doing that a lot
14:01:48 <sbp> saying parliament, rather than the house
14:02:29 <sbp> blah blah, clean break, blah blah...
14:02:58 <sbp> he's being a bit contradictory, I think
14:03:18 <sbp> got a loud hear though. dunno if it's just my speakers but it sounded from only one side...
14:03:21 <sbp> Richard Shepherd
14:04:32 <sbp> "we failed"
14:05:07 <sbp> he's pushing massive transparency and openness
14:06:13 <sbp> our mandate is to question, examine, and argue with the government
14:06:23 <sbp> this is not going to get a swathe of Labour votes...
14:06:40 <sbp> (sorry, I'm mixing quotes and my comments)
14:07:20 <sbp> he's giving some details about what they can do to bring in more checks and balances
14:07:41 <sbp> he believes smaller parties should have more voice
14:07:48 <sbp> he's really getting going now
14:08:06 <sbp> started bad, but he's being quite passionate now
14:08:31 <sbp> loud hear
14:08:35 <sbp> Sir Michael Lord
14:08:50 <sbp> this is the most important speech of his life
14:09:12 <sbp> need to restore trust. (we know! we know!)
14:09:32 <sbp> needs to boost backbenchers
14:09:50 <sbp> he's being so generic it's incredible
14:10:01 <sbp> need to be strong, need to be strong...
14:10:11 <sbp> he's pushing the backbench thing though
14:10:24 <sbp> need to have experience...
14:10:47 <[bjoern]> assign seats randomly each session
14:10:57 <sbp> politician: boo, parliamentarian: yay
14:11:07 <sbp> (I'm not using his rhetoric exactly)
14:11:23 <sbp> he's using some arborocultural metaphor
14:11:29 <sbp> apparently he also used to play rugby
14:12:59 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Jetzt lassen sich fünf Fotos auf einmal schicken. Nicht nur eines. Und oft beschrieben: Inzwischen hat der Computer auf dem iPhone Einzug gehalten und lässt einen etwas digital ausschneiden, kopieren und an anderen Stelle wieder einsetzen. Ach ja, man kann sogar einen Link in einem neuen Fenster öffnen. Schon irre."?
14:13:00 <phenny> [bjoern]: "Now five photos can be sent at once. Not just one. And often described: Meanwhile, the computer has on the iPhone for some time and leaves a slightly digitally cut, copy and other office again. Oh yes, it is even a link in a new window. Already mistaken." (de to en, translate.google.com)
14:13:20 <[bjoern]> that's funny
14:13:30 <sbp> says that politicians shouldn't be allowed to give major announcements out in the field
14:13:39 <sbp> before the house has the opportunity to hear about it themselves
14:13:42 <sbp> hears to that
14:14:01 <sbp> need to bring things away from the executive
14:14:09 <sbp> the house must take charge of matters which belong to it
14:14:18 <sbp> says a committe should be formed to get control back
14:14:28 <sbp> gives examples of reform
14:14:29 <[bjoern]> haha
14:15:19 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Aber mein Lieblingsfeature ist die Möglichkeit, Podcasts in doppelter oder halber Geschwindigkeit zu hören. Es geht nichts über esoterische Meditationsanleitungen, deren Sprecher jetzt wie unter Koks durch den Text haspelt. Und eine Sportreportage in transartiger Zeitlupe ist besser als das Wort zum Sonntag. Schneller hören. Darauf muss man erst einmal kommen."?
14:15:19 <phenny> [bjoern]: Phrase must be under 350 characters.
14:15:24 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Aber mein Lieblingsfeature ist die Möglichkeit, Podcasts in doppelter oder halber Geschwindigkeit zu hören. Es geht nichts über esoterische Meditationsanleitungen, deren Sprecher jetzt wie unter Koks durch den Text haspelt. Und eine Sportreportage in transartiger Zeitlupe ist besser als das Wort zum Sonntag. Schneller hören.?
14:15:26 <sbp> Speaker should not have a constant media presence
14:15:31 <[bjoern]> phenny, "Aber mein Lieblingsfeature ist die Möglichkeit, Podcasts in doppelter oder halber Geschwindigkeit zu hören. Es geht nichts über esoterische Meditationsanleitungen, deren Sprecher jetzt wie unter Koks durch den Text haspelt. Und eine Sportreportage in transartiger Zeitlupe ist besser als das Wort zum Sonntag. Schneller hören."?
14:15:32 <phenny> [bjoern]: "But my favorite feature is the ability to podcasts in double or half speed to hear. There is nothing esoteric about meditation instructions, their spokesman now as in coke by the text haspelt. And a sports reporting in trans-like slow motion is better than the word for Sunday. Fast heard." (de to en, translate.google.com)
14:15:46 <sbp> he hasn't canvassed colleagues
14:15:56 <[bjoern]> he's boring
14:15:57 <sbp> haspelt?
14:16:04 <[bjoern]> .leo haspeln
14:16:05 <sbp> yeah, a bit
14:16:05 <phenny> winding = das Haspeln
14:16:06 <phenny> haspeln = to reel, to spool, to wind | wound, wound |
14:16:07 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=haspeln
14:16:09 <sbp> seems reasonable though
14:16:13 <sbp> are you watching this?
14:16:20 <[bjoern]> no
14:16:23 <sbp> "this is no time to vote along party lines"
14:16:27 <[bjoern]> I am just commenting your commenting
14:16:53 <sbp> they must all be genuine in their votes, he says
14:16:54 <[bjoern]> so he isn't any parties favourite...
14:16:59 <sbp> heh, heh
14:17:11 <sbp> soft strong hears
14:17:15 <sbp> Sir Patrick Cormack
14:17:23 <sbp> also no great campaign
14:17:27 <sbp> 39 years in the house this week
14:17:35 <sbp> deeply and passionately loves the institution
14:17:49 <sbp> mentions the guy who mentioned Sir Thomas More
14:18:02 <sbp> and Sir Patrick points out it's his feast day
14:18:15 <sbp> also the day that Machiavelli died...
14:18:23 <sbp> and the eve of Banockburn
14:18:26 <[bjoern]> "If you've ever gotten into a competition with your friends about who has more apps (I'll challenge anybody), or if you're just curious, the iPhone now counts your applications."
14:18:32 <sbp> much choxing by people who know what he's on about
14:18:37 <sbp> into the main points
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14:19:05 <sbp> he talks about releasing soviet journalists, I think? can't hear
14:19:07 <sbp> background noise
14:19:33 <[bjoern]> but they are the worst of the worst journalists, we can't let them lose!
14:19:41 <sbp> wants to become a beacon for those hungry for democracy
14:19:47 <sbp> is making a very historically referent speech
14:19:56 <sbp> mentions Zimbabwe and Iran
14:20:04 <sbp> notes that there are Speaker limitations
14:20:23 <sbp> "I have neither eyes to see... yes, I was there!"
14:20:25 <sbp> heheh
14:20:26 <[bjoern]> I shining bacon of light in the fridge's darkness.
14:20:34 <sbp> "...but as this house shall direct me, whose servant I am"
14:20:37 <sbp> famous quote
14:20:49 <sbp> underlined the duties and limitations of the Speaker
14:21:13 <sbp> "I would very much like to see the business of this house in the hands of a business of the house committee, with an opposition majority"
14:21:15 <sbp> (eek)
14:21:23 <sbp> ooh, says that committees should be chosen by secret ballot
14:21:27 <sbp> if the house directs it so
14:21:36 <sbp> wants a tighter grip of parliamentary questions
14:21:40 <sbp> particularly PMQs
14:21:47 <sbp> too much is taken up by gladiatorial battles
14:21:48 <sbp> wow
14:21:52 <sbp> major swipe
14:21:56 <sbp> I would cut that down at a stroke
14:21:59 <sbp> major, major hears
14:22:23 <sbp> "and I would like to feel, Mr. William, that if MPs had more opportunity to call the govt. to account"
14:22:35 <sbp> er, missing it, but he's saying there should be more questioning of the govt.
14:22:49 <sbp> ministers who leak stories before bringing them to the house should be named and shamed
14:23:03 <sbp> we need a better balanced executive-legislature motion
14:23:14 <[bjoern]> They get outmoded hair pieces.
14:23:15 <sbp> makes some specific point on that which I don't understand
14:23:29 <sbp> duty of the Speaker to protect minority parties and minority views
14:23:42 <sbp> "I dislike what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
14:23:50 <sbp> mentions speaking against the poll tax
14:23:53 <sbp> and preserve the GLC
14:24:00 <sbp> and says he depended on the Speaker for those debates
14:24:07 <sbp> he will stand up for these things
14:24:17 <sbp> he knows what backbenchers need from that chair [he says, motioning]
14:24:59 <sbp> "the real poor are those who have no hope"
14:25:16 <sbp> "Mr. Williams, I submit myself to the will of the house"
14:25:20 <sbp> that was a speech of much fireworks
14:25:24 <sbp> Sir Alan Haselhurst
14:25:27 <sbp> (deputy Speaker)
14:25:55 <sbp> he says they should be thankful that only MPs have the vote on this
14:26:05 <sbp> (a seriously bad point to make)
14:26:09 <sbp> he'll work for change, but...
14:26:20 <sbp> has the experience to lead them through
14:26:48 <sbp> he too favours front bench brevity
14:26:56 <sbp> "I have shown it is possible to get to 20 questions"
14:27:08 <sbp> he promises to bark not to much at some honourable member
14:27:12 <sbp> an in joke, don't get that
14:27:55 <sbp> making quite generic points
14:28:02 <sbp> make consensus, blah blah
14:28:55 <sbp> giving some examples of specific reforms
14:29:34 <sbp> integrated approach to salaries and allowances needed
14:29:40 <sbp> which is a good point, but he's putting it blandly
14:31:08 <sbp> wow, huge response to him
14:31:14 <sbp> biggest one, i think
14:31:21 <sbp> Parmjit Dhanda
14:31:26 <[bjoern]> they are anticipating the last candidate
14:31:31 <sbp> probably yeah
14:31:37 <sbp> he said "yeah, last one..." or something
14:31:48 <sbp> he says any one of the ten will be good as speaker
14:31:53 <sbp> do we all "get" it though?
14:31:59 <sbp> not sure that we do, he says
14:32:28 <sbp> he's making good points but, yikes
14:32:38 <sbp> doesn't have the demeanor of a Speaker at all
14:32:42 <sbp> he's speaking like a minister
14:32:54 <sbp> he'd make a good minister
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14:33:21 <sbp> oh dear, just made a flat joke too
14:33:30 <sbp> "do we speak the language of modern Britain?"
14:33:47 <sbp> he thinks we need a more deferential parliament
14:34:00 <sbp> quite a bit of silence, not even murmuring
14:34:06 <sbp> mentions facebook and twitter
14:34:18 <sbp> saying we should let people decide the agenda by internet polls
14:34:53 <sbp> he is not speaking wisely
14:34:59 <sbp> now murmuring is starting
14:35:19 <sbp> should re-engage local media
14:35:26 <sbp> get MPs to feel the heat
14:35:29 <sbp> to make better decisions
14:35:41 <sbp> we need to reform faster, he says
14:36:46 <sbp> move the pendulum of power back to local communities
14:37:08 <sbp> "I want people to aspire to be here"
14:37:34 <sbp> mild hears
14:37:43 <sbp> "all the candidates have now addressed the house"
14:38:05 <sbp> okay, first vote!
14:38:27 <sbp> surnames divided into three streams in each lobby
14:38:33 <sbp> A-L in ayes, K-Z in noes
14:38:35 <sbp> hahaha
14:38:46 <sbp> "I remind the members, they should only vote for one candidate"
14:38:51 <sbp> "it would be preferred, anyhow!"
14:39:05 <sbp> hmm, think he's saying doors will be locked for an hour
14:39:09 <sbp> ballot open
14:39:13 <sbp> sitting of the chamber now suspended
14:39:41 <sbp> oh, heh, I metathesised the letters
14:39:44 <sbp> A-K, L-Z
14:39:58 <sbp> anybody who comes last or gets less than 5% goes out
14:40:10 <sbp> ah, half an hour to vote
14:40:19 <sbp> then an hour to declare
14:40:30 <sbp> first results, then, probably by about 5:10
14:42:27 <sbp> pundits speaking now
14:42:43 <sbp> MPs apparently impressed with Sir George Young
14:43:25 <sbp> Berkow spoke too long, some say
14:44:03 <sbp> he says Sir George Young might do well
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15:28:07 <xover> The Norway debate?
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15:34:37 <sbp> the MP who voted first in his section said they had to vote behind a bookcase
15:34:40 <sbp> and that it was properly secret
15:34:51 <sbp> xover: yeah, a pivotal discussion during the war
15:35:03 <sbp> in which it became clear that the PM had lost the confidence of the house
15:35:12 <sbp> similar to how the Speaker had lost the confidence of the house here
15:35:31 <sbp> it was a very shrewd historical reference, made at a cruicial point
15:35:35 <sbp> *crucial
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16:07:58 <sbp> results!
16:08:01 <sbp> Berkow, 179
16:08:04 <sbp> Cormack, 13
16:08:07 <sbp> someone 26
16:08:10 <sbp> Haselhurst 66
16:08:12 <sbp> Lord 9
16:08:17 <sbp> Shepherd 15
16:08:21 <sbp> Widdecome 44
16:08:25 <sbp> Young 112
16:08:31 <sbp> one ballot is spoilt. hehe
16:08:34 <sbp> much laughing
16:08:49 <sbp> the someone was Dhanda
16:08:57 <sbp> Sir Michael Lord is out
16:09:13 <sbp> Cormack, Dhanda, and Shepherd are out
16:09:41 <sbp> didn't hear how much Beckett got
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16:10:26 <sbp> Sir Alan Beith got 55
16:11:22 <sbp> those left in:
16:11:23 <sbp> Berkow 179
16:11:23 <sbp> Young 112
16:11:23 <sbp> Beckett 74
16:11:23 <sbp> Haselhurst 66
16:11:23 <sbp> Beith 55
16:11:25 <sbp> Widdecombe 44
16:11:34 <sbp> Berkow is incredibly far in front
16:12:01 <sbp> doesn't look like Beckett will win
16:12:10 <sbp> thirty minutes now to print the new papers
16:12:19 <sbp> very interesting
16:12:28 <sbp> I didn't think that Berkow was Speaker material at all
16:12:38 <sbp> and Young seemed okay but bland to me
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16:36:51 <sbp> *Bercow
16:37:11 <sbp> second round of voting is getting underway, I think?
16:37:19 <sbp> looks like all six on the new ballot?
16:37:45 <sbp> ah, no
16:37:51 <sbp> still a delay, I think
16:38:02 <sbp> oh, nope
16:38:07 <sbp> there is a second round now
16:38:20 <sbp> so, next results expected at about 7pm
16:39:14 <sbp> I have a feeling there'll be a huge slew towards the main candidates from last time
16:39:20 <sbp> to get it over with a bit quicker
16:39:27 <sbp> so probably a two or three horse race already
16:42:52 <[bjoern]> I've been elected speaker.
16:42:59 <[bjoern]> I just twittered about it.
16:43:41 <sbp> .o twitter bjoernhoehrmann
16:43:41 <phenny> Could not find status 1 for bjoernhoehrmann
16:44:04 <sbp> what's your twitternym, teh [bjoernmeister]?
16:44:16 <[bjoern]> bjoern was still available when i loled at it.
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17:10:05 <[bjoern]> so where are the results sbp?
17:11:34 <sbp> I just gave them. they're above
17:12:03 <sbp> Bercow 179, Young 112, Beckett 74, Haselhurst 66, Beith 55, Widdecombe 44
17:12:16 <sbp> all others excluded from further rounds due to lack of votes
17:12:17 <[bjoern]> Ah by 7pm you mean your time, not proper time.
17:12:43 <sbp> yeah
17:16:50 <sbp> I'm not sure whether to be thankful that Beckett is probably going to lose
17:16:58 <sbp> or disappointed that Bercow is probably going to win
17:17:09 <sbp> perhaps he'll be good, but it seems really odd to me
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17:18:40 <[bjoern]> You are mostly glad Beckham didn't run.
17:18:54 <sbp> thinking back to his speech, I wonder if he was putting forward a crowd pleasing thing
17:18:59 <sbp> but has some kind of agenda of his own
17:19:05 <sbp> that is true
17:19:25 <sbp> note that Bercow used to be a right-wing politician
17:19:30 <sbp> but then he drifted into the centre
17:19:37 <sbp> and there's been rumours that he would defect to Labour
17:19:46 <sbp> so maybe even he doesn't know what his views are...
17:20:44 <sbp> winner is first to get over 50% of the vote, by the way
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17:30:39 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8110998.stm
17:30:41 <phenny> sbp: BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | What a racket
17:30:52 <sbp> the link to it is “Argghougooou!”
17:31:27 <sbp> [bjoern]: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45959000/gif/_45959412_speakers_cross466x258.gif
17:31:50 <[bjoern]> don't send things like that without a SCARY marker
17:32:41 <sbp> oh yeah
17:33:54 <[bjoern]> If you remove those that practise witchcraft and cannibalism ...
17:35:01 <[bjoern]> I don't know, maybe vote for the top left one?
17:35:37 <[bjoern]> He seems to be the most vulnerable to pitchforks, when the revolution comes.
17:36:45 <sbp> that's Young
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17:36:54 <sbp> whom I would indeed vote for at this point
17:37:33 <sbp> I would've voted for Beith in the first round, I think
17:37:53 <[bjoern]> I don't get http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conservative_logo_2006.svg
17:37:54 <sbp> Cormack's speech was quite disappointing
17:38:04 <sbp> Beith seemed entirely reasonable
17:38:15 <sbp> but I'm not surprised he got a fairly low amount of votes
17:38:25 <sbp> he was being pretty radical-oriented
17:38:39 <sbp> I'm still really confused about Bercow being so far out ahead
17:38:55 <[bjoern]> which one is he on the pix?
17:39:08 <sbp> 2nd on the bottom
17:39:19 <sbp> grey and pale, blue shirt
17:39:36 <[bjoern]> Yeah next to the cannibal
17:39:44 <sbp> top: Young, Haselhurst, Lord, Cormack, Beckett
17:40:06 <sbp> bottom: Beith, Bercow, Widdecombe, Shepherd, Dhanda
17:40:21 <[bjoern]> I think "Haselhurst" may have had a role in X Files.
17:40:30 <sbp> Shepherd was pretty awful
17:40:45 <sbp> I'm surprised Lord went out. he seemed middling
17:40:58 <sbp> Dhanda wasn't bottom, which was a surprise
17:41:00 <[bjoern]> Dhanda is the Quotenausländer?
17:41:17 <sbp> er. I'll go for ja
17:41:24 <[bjoern]> .leo Quotenfrau
17:41:25 <phenny> die Quotenfrau = woman who has been given a post just to fulfil the quota system requirements, statutory woman, token woman (hum.)
17:41:26 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Quotenfrau
17:41:35 <sbp> ah!
17:41:36 <sbp> yes
17:41:37 <[bjoern]> just with immigrant
17:42:14 <sbp> sad that Vince Cable didn't go for it
17:42:20 <[bjoern]> Parmjit Singh Dhanda?
17:42:21 <sbp> though he's perhaps too nice to be Speaker
17:42:29 <sbp> Dhanda was terrible
17:42:43 <sbp> he's the one who said we should throw open the process to facebookites and twitterlings
17:42:52 <[bjoern]> Does he support outsourcing it jobs?
17:42:57 <sbp> heh
17:43:01 <sbp> yes, basically
17:43:10 <[bjoern]> I WONDER Y
17:45:12 <[bjoern]> Beckett reminds me of Ruth Bader Ginsburg
17:46:13 <[bjoern]> She might want to donate a better pictograph to wikimedia commons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Beckett
17:46:27 <sbp> that's about as good as it gets
17:46:46 <[bjoern]> "Minister of State for Housing and Planning"
17:47:10 <[bjoern]> I was gonna say I might see a reason not to elect her for anything, but then she had that job only a couple of months
17:47:27 <[bjoern]> "Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs"
17:47:28 <sbp> she's an experienced parliamentarian
17:47:36 <[bjoern]> "Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs"
17:47:37 <sbp> but about as far from being non-partisan as possible
17:48:00 <sbp> it would be like if the Conservatives threw in Grieve or something
17:48:15 <[bjoern]> Yes, I gathered that from "Member of Parliament for Lincoln"
17:48:26 <[bjoern]> Though with the obvious misinterpretation twist
17:50:14 <[bjoern]> Is it expected you'll have a winner this round of voting?
17:50:25 <[bjoern]> Like, would simple majority suffice?
17:50:33 <sbp> [bjoern]: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8111984.stm
17:50:41 <sbp> oh, you probably can't watch that can you?
17:50:50 <sbp> as I say, over 50% winz
17:50:58 <sbp> I don't think there'll be a winner this round
17:51:03 <sbp> there could feasibly be, but there won't
17:51:07 <[bjoern]> I usually can, at least nus pieces
17:51:14 <[bjoern]> yes i can
17:51:20 <[bjoern]> I'm so obamaesque
17:52:37 <sbp> note that of the eliminatees, three were Conservatives
17:52:43 <sbp> pretty old school Conservatives
17:52:48 <sbp> so that might give a boost to Young
17:53:05 <sbp> that'd only be like 30 votes' worth though
17:53:12 hannes_ (n=hannes@sedanet0.sedan.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE) has joined #swhack
17:53:23 <sbp> it's really hard to predict how it'll go
17:53:24 <MoiraA> hello sbp
17:53:37 <sbp> ooh, 2nd round results expected shortly so says ye news
17:53:38 <sbp> hey MoiraA
17:53:41 <MoiraA> you got time for a chat at some point?
17:53:44 <MoiraA> 5 minutes
17:53:45 <sbp> sure
17:53:47 <[bjoern]> The moderator did a documentary series traveling round europe trying to comment humourously on his experiences.
17:53:55 <[bjoern]> I watched the piece about germany and maybe another
17:53:59 <sbp> moderator?
17:54:11 <[bjoern]> The guy screaming at Michael.
17:54:33 <[bjoern]> The host, if you will
17:54:41 <[bjoern]> We call them Moderatoren, usually.
17:54:49 <sbp> house is packed
17:54:54 <sbp> looks like it's going to be called soon
17:54:55 <[bjoern]> coz they, you know, they moderate the show.
17:55:05 <sbp> here we go!
17:55:08 <sbp> 599 cast
17:55:14 <sbp> Beckett 70?
17:55:16 <sbp> Beither 46
17:55:25 <sbp> Bercow./.. missed it
17:55:27 <sbp> Haselhurst 57
17:55:30 <sbp> Widdecombe 30
17:55:32 <sbp> Young 174
17:55:35 <sbp> 1 spoilt
17:55:37 <sbp> hehe
17:55:45 <sbp> Bercow got the most
17:55:50 <[bjoern]> .c 599 - 70 - 46 - 57 - 30 - 174
17:55:50 <phenny> 599 - 70 - 46 - 57 - 30 - 174 = 222
17:55:54 <sbp> thanks
17:55:58 <sbp> Widdecombe out
17:56:00 <sbp> nobody over 50%
17:56:07 <sbp> "I invite and beg..."
17:56:15 <sbp> "any candidate who... I'm getting older"
17:56:18 <[bjoern]> one of my fav pickup lines
17:56:25 <sbp> "who wishes to withdraw to please tell me in the next 10 mins"
17:56:31 <sbp> okay, next papers in 30 mins
17:56:47 <sbp> time for voting reduced to 20 mins
17:56:51 <sbp> big hear hear
17:57:21 <[bjoern]> Next round still looking for one going > 50%?
17:57:38 <sbp> so:
17:57:38 <sbp> Bercow - 222
17:57:38 <sbp> Young - 174
17:57:38 <sbp> Beckett - 70
17:57:38 <sbp> Haselhurst - 57
17:57:39 <sbp> Beith - 46
17:57:41 <sbp> Widdecombe - 30 (out)
17:57:50 <sbp> oh, 221 Bercow
17:57:56 <sbp> --
17:57:56 <sbp> Bercow - 221
17:57:56 <sbp> Young - 174
17:57:56 <sbp> Beckett - 70
17:57:56 <sbp> Haselhurst - 57
17:57:57 <sbp> Beith - 46
17:57:59 <sbp> Widdecombe - 30 (out)
17:58:01 <sbp> --
17:58:03 <sbp> you forgot the one spoilt
17:58:07 <[bjoern]> Ah missed the invalid .. right
17:58:09 <sbp> so definitely a two horse race, as they're saying
17:58:15 <[bjoern]> You also weren't sure about the 70!
17:58:24 <sbp> aye
17:58:29 <sbp> I wondered if he said 17
17:58:34 <[bjoern]> hehe
17:58:34 <sbp> but that would be very unlikely
17:58:38 <[bjoern]> wishful thinking there
17:58:39 <sbp> had to hope though
17:58:40 <sbp> heh, yeah
17:58:52 <sbp> Young's gone up by 60, so that's interesting
17:58:56 <sbp> bigger rise than Bercow
17:58:59 <sbp> but Bercow is still ahead
17:59:19 <sbp> Widdecombe out means that the bulk of those will probably go to Young
17:59:35 <xover> The Bear/Cow for Speaker!
17:59:38 <sbp> if Haselhurst goes out, they think those will go Young too
18:00:12 <sbp> so that could be a huge swathe of votes to Young
18:00:21 <sbp> easily enough to redress the current gulf
18:01:30 <[bjoern]> Should vote for Thomas von Aquin then, he could speak to cows and bears.
18:02:37 <sbp> in next few minutes expect to see who drops out
18:04:21 <sbp> man, this is an odd vote
18:04:25 <sbp> lot going on in this
18:04:34 <sbp> (pundits are talking about stuffs)
18:05:04 <sbp> they're saying the Conservatives won't vote for Bercow because he's so Labour-aligned
18:05:32 <sbp> it's thought (or rumoured) Labour put up Beckett to beat Young in the first round
18:05:36 <sbp> and then challenge Bercow
18:05:38 <sbp> didn't happen though
18:06:42 <sbp> oh, house... argh
18:06:44 <sbp> missed it
18:06:52 <sbp> no announcement of people dropping out?
18:06:54 <sbp> oh!
18:06:59 <sbp> all except two pulled out
18:07:09 <sbp> everybody dropped out except for Bercow and Young
18:07:12 <sbp> members out to vote
18:07:24 <sbp> and only voting for 20mins
18:07:32 <sbp> they clearly want to get this done
18:07:37 <sbp> 8:30 they're expecting
18:07:39 <sbp> maybe earlier
18:07:54 <sbp> 203 votes to play for
18:08:03 <sbp> 70 + 57 + 46 + 30
18:08:15 <sbp> plus that spoilt one, perhaps... :-)
18:08:27 *** lmorchard is now known as lmorchard|away
18:09:21 <[bjoern]> some may also have voted strategically for someone they didn't necessarily want, say, to prolong the vote...
18:09:40 <sbp> hehe. an MP talking to Jon Sopel
18:09:46 <sbp> looking anxiously at his watch
18:09:55 <sbp> quick, I need to vote! I need to vote!
18:10:07 <sbp> ah. he went from Shepherd to Bercow
18:10:13 <sbp> could live with either
18:10:17 <sbp> a reformist, lukewarm about both
18:11:32 <sbp> I'm suspecting Bercow would be better
18:11:52 <sbp> in that he's less partisan (which I went so far as to ring my MP's office about), and seems more reformist
18:12:18 <sbp> but I'm worried because he seems to have less of the authoritative demeanour that a Speaker needs, and was making conflictory statements in his speech
18:12:52 <sbp> and the main job of the Speaker is to, you know, be a good Speaker
18:13:08 <sbp> which is mainly all the boring stuff of calling people to speak and telling them to shut up
18:13:21 <sbp> Carswell rushes off to vote
18:13:36 <sbp> ah, they're replaying a bit of Bercow's speech
18:14:27 *** lmorchard|away is now known as lmorchard
18:14:45 <sbp> Young's speech now
18:15:47 <sbp> Widdecombe is voting for Young
18:15:58 <sbp> she thinks *he* is more unifying
18:16:16 <sbp> that speech reminded me he was actually quite radical (speaking) too
18:16:35 <sbp> she thinks the Lib Dem votes might go to Young too
18:16:39 <sbp> very interesting
18:16:39 <[bjoern]> Is the language of even-length palindromes over [ab]* regular? (as in, aa, bb, abba, baab, aaaaaa, bbbbbb, aabbaa, babbab, ...)
18:16:43 <[bjoern]> Thank you
18:17:42 <sbp> intuitively I would guess not
18:17:54 <[bjoern]> (It does not seem so, as you need to memorize the string as you've seen it so far to determine what must come next...)
18:17:57 <sbp> context sensitive on the second half repeating the second backwards
18:17:59 <sbp> right
18:18:04 <sbp> *first backwards
18:18:08 <[bjoern]> context free it is
18:18:28 <[bjoern]> you can just put the whole string on the stack, and read it from there once you got to the middle
18:19:02 <[bjoern]> "In the automata theory, a set of all palindromes in a given alphabet is a typical example of a language which is context-free, but not regular."
18:19:04 <sbp> bell's going
18:19:25 <sbp> hmm. James Lansdale thinks the third ballot has just opened
18:19:36 <sbp> oh, so there was that ten mins... right, got it
18:19:48 <sbp> so 8:30-40 they're expecting
18:20:36 <sbp> if I were voting now...
18:20:44 <sbp> actually if I were voting now I'd know a lot more about the candidates
18:20:51 <sbp> but I'd probably go for Young
18:21:35 <sbp> whether either of 'em will do what they say...
18:23:12 <[bjoern]> widdecombe will vote for young.
18:24:24 <sbp> yeah, I told YOU that
18:24:31 <sbp> on Soviet Swhack, sbp informs YOU
18:24:37 <[bjoern]> yeah, i read that.
18:24:54 <[bjoern]> I was going you something to consider, perhaps.
18:24:55 <sbp> did Monty eat our statue of Lenin?
18:25:10 <[bjoern]> and run away?
18:25:29 <sbp> well if you're asking who the majority of crazy people will vote for...
18:25:38 <sbp> I think the answer is, "both of them"
18:26:11 <sbp> Carswell is voting for Young too
18:26:17 <sbp> and Carswell is a bit of a hothead
18:26:30 <sbp> (he started this process of removing the old Speaker)
18:26:43 <sbp> but as AW says, she thinks the Lib Dems will vote for Young now
18:26:57 <sbp> so if the left are voting for Young, and the right are voting for Young...
18:27:17 <[bjoern]> .wik MKCOL
18:27:19 <phenny> "Web-based Distributed Authoring and Versioning, or WebDAV, is a set of extensions to the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) that allows users to edit and manage files collaboratively on remote World Wide Web servers." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebDAV
18:31:03 <sbp> note, by the way, that Young was thought to be the leading candidate last time around
18:31:09 <sbp> when Michael Martin actually got in instead
18:31:20 <sbp> that's progress for you!
18:34:44 <sbp> oh, Sir Alan Beith being interviewed
18:35:40 <sbp> he's being very diplomatic
18:35:53 <sbp> difficult judgement between the two, he says
18:36:24 <sbp> he doesn't think the current round will be partisan
18:36:50 <sbp> people in the commons says perhaps Bercow by a nose
18:37:07 <sbp> I think he's most likely to win too, thinking about it
18:37:13 <sbp> don't think the swing will be big enough
18:38:56 <sbp> hmm, someone said Young is more liberal than half their party
18:38:59 <sbp> dunno who that was though
18:39:30 <sbp> another journalist saying Bercow seems likely
18:39:52 <sbp> they're thinking only a quarter of the Lib Dem votes need to go to Bercow
18:47:29 <sbp> analysist at St. Andrews University says major problems with Iran vote
18:47:34 <sbp> from official government statistics
18:48:10 <[bjoern]> results overdue
18:48:40 <sbp> nope, one more hour
18:48:43 <sbp> BST again!
18:49:37 <[bjoern]> You might want to give our parliament a friendly visit, educate yourself on how to do secret paper ballots quickly.
18:50:11 <sbp> we do things the classy way
18:50:16 <sbp> voting in small rooms behind bookcases
18:50:22 <sbp> anyway, they did trim 10mins off of the process
19:00:40 <sbp> hmm, Jon Sopel is saying results due in a few minutes
19:00:47 <sbp> "in the next few minutes", even
19:01:30 <sbp> BBC Parliament has the Lords...
19:04:12 <sbp> Tony Benn speaking
19:09:03 <bancus> monty: ping
19:09:08 <sbp> from all the people speaking, it does sound like Young is the better choice
19:09:35 <sbp> but it looks like people will settle for either
19:10:01 <sbp> hehe. Labour member says there was certainly a Whip's candidate here...
19:11:35 <sbp> some MP here switched from Young to Bercow
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19:29:15 <sbp> commons full
19:29:36 <sbp> no sound on the picture yet
19:29:45 <sbp> Alan Williams MP to speak
19:29:49 <sbp> some talking
19:29:51 <sbp> laughing
19:29:52 <sbp> here we go
19:29:58 <sbp> result
19:30:01 <sbp> 593 cast
19:30:09 <sbp> Bercow - 322
19:30:11 <[bjoern]> .c 593 - 322
19:30:11 <phenny> 593 - 322 = 271
19:30:11 <sbp> he's got it
19:30:15 <sbp> Young - 271
19:30:24 <sbp> clapping
19:30:24 <[bjoern]> no bad votes.
19:30:31 <sbp> nope. someone didn't spoil
19:30:36 <sbp> probably one of the ones who didn't vote
19:30:38 <[bjoern]> also not all voting
19:30:45 <sbp> cheering in the house
19:31:02 <sbp> Alan Williams calls for order, kinda
19:31:11 <sbp> "let's make sure we sign it off properly!"
19:31:20 <sbp> question
19:31:22 <sbp> aye!
19:31:28 <sbp> contrary no?
19:31:31 <sbp> none
19:31:32 <sbp> ayes have it
19:31:38 <sbp> "congratulations Mr. Speaker"
19:31:41 <sbp> dragging him to the chair
19:31:49 <sbp> much clapping
19:32:03 <[bjoern]> Some MPs holding "Where's my vote?" signs, wearing green arm bands.
19:32:12 <sbp> hehe
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19:32:37 <sbp> "thank you, my first pleasant duty...
19:32:42 <sbp> is warmly to thank on behalf of us all
19:32:52 <sbp> Alan Williams for the mag. and good ghumoured way in which he's conducted this election"
19:32:53 <sbp> clapping
19:32:56 <sbp> "it's been a very long day
19:32:59 <sbp> [laughs]
19:33:08 <sbp> and those of you expecting a cust. long diatribe will be sorely disapponited
19:33:11 <sbp> [yay!]
19:33:14 <sbp> I should like to thank
19:33:18 <sbp> and pay a heartfelt tribute
19:33:24 <sbp> to all of the candidates who stood in this election
19:33:28 <sbp> [clapping]
19:33:36 <[bjoern]> 'tis how you supposed to look next year http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7591/12456891042100/53798025_24128846_slide.jpg
19:33:41 <sbp> it has been a constructive debate that we have enjoyed over teh last few weeks
19:33:49 <sbp> I confess that I have the hgigest regard for all of the other candidates
19:33:52 <sbp> ewach brought something to the occasion
19:33:56 <sbp> each had a cont. to make
19:34:00 <[bjoern]> http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7591/12456891044550/53798036_24124722_slide.jpg
19:34:06 <sbp> and I canhon . say each made that cont. in the most sincere and const. fashion
19:34:12 <sbp> to the continued benefit of this house
19:34:26 <[bjoern]> Wimbledon http://www.derwesten.de/static/nachrichten/7591/12456891045740/53798041_24124204_slide.jpg
19:34:28 <sbp> colleageus you will understand that my tgoughts at this time are above all with my family
19:34:32 <sbp> my wife Sally
19:34:35 <sbp> our three very young children
19:34:40 <sbp> Oliver, Freddie, and Jemimah
19:34:45 <sbp> not to mention my beloved mother
19:34:49 <sbp> who's been clearly interested in proceedings
19:34:51 <sbp> [laughter]
19:35:01 <sbp> coll. you have just bestoewd upon me the greatest honour that I have enjoyed in my professional life
19:35:09 <sbp> I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the conf. that you have placed in me
19:35:18 <sbp> and I'm keenly aware of the obligation into which I now enter
19:35:26 <sbp> and I want just to say this: about the rsp. of the office
19:35:32 <sbp> I said only a few hours ago in my speech
19:35:51 <sbp> that if elected, a pseaker has a respo. immed. and perm. to cast aside all of his or her previous cpolitical views
19:35:53 <sbp> I said it... [laughs]
19:35:57 <sbp> [much laughter]
19:36:05 <sbp> I said it...
19:36:08 <sbp> and I meant it!
19:36:23 <sbp> my comm. to this house is to be completely impartial as between members of one pol. party and another
19:36:27 <sbp> that is WHAT it's about
19:36:30 <sbp> and I will do my best
19:36:35 <sbp> faith. and hon. and effectively to serve this house
19:36:38 <sbp> in the period ahead
19:36:43 <sbp> we have faced quite the most testing times
19:36:47 <sbp> it has been a greulling experience
19:36:59 <sbp> many members feel very sore and very uln. but large sectors of the pub. also feel angry and dis.
19:37:30 <sbp> we do have to reform,. but I just want to say that I cont. to believe that the vast maj. of mem. of this house. are up. hon. people who have come into politcs not to feather tehir nests but because they have heeded thee call of... [losing it]
19:37:51 <sbp> [seeks to discharge his obligations in this office in that manner]
19:37:51 <sbp> "
19:37:56 <sbp> [clapping]
19:38:08 <sbp> "the Prime Minister"
19:38:20 <sbp> PM: "Speaker-Elect... [congratulates him]"
19:38:37 <sbp> the monarch now chooses
19:39:26 <sbp> PM pays tribute to the candidatesa
19:39:39 <sbp> says all wanted to reform, to do what's best for the house
19:40:33 <sbp> I'm surprised he won by such a margin
19:40:47 <sbp> ahahaha
19:40:53 <sbp> PM makes hilarious crack at him
19:41:11 <sbp> "you say that you cast aside all your political views... [pause] some of us thought you did that a long time ago"
19:41:21 <sbp> makes tennis metaphor...
19:42:19 <sbp> leader of the opposition
19:43:12 <sbp> "you have the support of these benches"
19:43:17 <sbp> not just as Speaker, but in the reform too
19:43:35 <sbp> hehe, they were a tennis pair
19:43:46 <sbp> first Jew to occupy the office of Speaker
19:44:11 <sbp> on the casting off of political views: "on this side of the house I would say let's hope that includes all of them!"
19:44:22 <sbp> .wik Gloucester MP
19:44:23 <phenny> "Thomas Robinson (January 1827 - 26 Oct 1897) was an English corn merchant and Liberal politician." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robinson_(Gloucester_MP)
19:44:32 <sbp> .wik Gloucester Member of Parliament
19:44:33 <phenny> "Gloucester is a borough constituency represented in the House of Commons of the Parliament of the United Kingdom." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
19:44:36 <sbp> aaaargh
19:44:46 <sbp> ah, Dhanda
19:44:53 <sbp> Nick Clegg
19:45:51 <sbp> "you must be different"
19:46:31 <sbp> heh, both Cameron and Clegg mention Dhanda
19:46:42 <nsh> who's that?
19:46:47 <sbp> one of the candidates
19:46:51 <sbp> went out in the first round
19:47:23 <nsh> ok
19:47:30 <nsh> some young female?
19:47:34 <sbp> Plaid Cymru speaker
19:47:39 <sbp> BBC News are pulling away from it
19:47:59 * sbp switches to BBC Parliament
19:48:01 <sbp> they're on the Commons now
19:48:12 <sbp> SDLP Leader speaking
19:49:33 <sbp> DUP member speaking
19:49:37 <[bjoern]> "MPs in the running to succeed Michael Martin as House of Commons Speaker on Monday have come under scrutiny in more allegations over expenses claims."
19:49:45 <sbp> yeah
19:49:56 <[bjoern]> I wonder what's being decided in the background that you need this level of distraction
19:50:01 <sbp> I think that's why Sir Ming didn't run
19:50:39 <[bjoern]> Any estimate on the sum of money that may have been used arguably inappropriately?
19:50:55 <sbp> Kilfoyle says he owes his position to the backbenchers
19:51:02 <sbp> asks to look out to the interests of the backbenchers
19:51:17 <sbp> Dr. Richard Taylor
19:51:21 <sbp> senior independent
19:51:38 <sbp> talks about the Speaker's independence, keeps it short
19:51:53 <sbp> Royal Approbation... 9:45pm tonight
19:52:03 <sbp> suspended until 9:50pm
19:52:10 <sbp> 157th Speaker
19:52:56 <sbp> Betty Boothroyd speaking on BBC Parliament
19:53:50 <sbp> "a bit of joshing about which party he was in..."
19:53:57 <sbp> "I'm not as cheeky as you are on those things..."
19:54:05 <sbp> "I was merely repeating what David Cameron said!"
19:55:13 <sbp> "there'll be more hot hat doffing than you've had hot dinners"
19:55:39 <sbp> right, I'm off
19:55:41 <sbp> 'night!
19:56:11 <[bjoern]> Seems this is in the area of tens of millions annually
19:56:12 <[bjoern]> night
19:56:46 <[bjoern]> phunny http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8113125.stm
19:57:28 <[bjoern]> "If we start deleting data we are required to delete, then we might have to delete data we are required to delete all the time"
19:58:37 <[bjoern]> <ASCAP> Ringtones are public performances.
19:59:28 <[bjoern]> "ASCAP Stops the Girl Scouts from Singing around the Campfire"
20:01:23 <[bjoern]> "This will doubtless come as a shock to the millions of Americans who have legitimately purchased musical ringtones, contributing millions to the music industry's bottom line. Are we each liable for statutory damages (say, $80,000) if we forget to silence our phones in a restaurant? "
20:32:13 <clsn> [bjoern]: Link for that last one?
20:34:48 <[bjoern]> http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/ascap-wants-be-paid-
20:35:04 <clsn> 10x
20:35:10 <[bjoern]> .g "This will doubtless come as a shock to the millions of Americans "
20:35:11 <phenny> [bjoern]: http://creativefreedom.org.nz/
20:35:31 <deltab> http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/ascap-wants-be-paid-
20:35:45 <[bjoern]> Pityful google prefers exceptors and copies of originals.
20:35:55 <deltab> :-(
20:35:57 <[bjoern]> there are letters missing
20:36:11 <[bjoern]> like, excerpt, and over, ...
20:36:31 <[bjoern]> I was mostly attending an ache in my left ring finger when typing that
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23:48:33 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp bottom of http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8104362.stm
23:48:33 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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23:54:45 <Arnia> [bjoern]: whoops
23:58:21 <nelix> .o py ()
23:58:23 <phenny> ()
23:58:35 * nelix wonders what kinda sandbox that is in
23:59:16 <MoiraA> the sort you need your bucket and spade for :)
23:59:57 <Arnia> .o py "do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain"
23:59:57 <phenny> do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain