Swhack! 4 July 2009
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00:49:50 <Monty> welcome, w00t69
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00:57:10 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's [bjoern]!
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03:32:18 <[bjoern]> heh, palin resigns
03:32:46 <[bjoern]> ~ http://i43.tinypic.com/jscy6o.jpg
03:55:54 <bancus> The rumor is that she decided to go back and finish high school.
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07:25:32 <Monty> hey tav
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08:29:15 <sbp> yo
08:29:15 <phenny> sbp: 03 Jul 21:58Z <[bjoern]> tell sbp http://asset.soup.io/asset/0376/8025_c37d.jpeg
08:29:24 <sbp> One cup of PLASMON cocoa - newspaper...
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08:44:40 <Monty> bah, it's danja_ again
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09:24:43 <Monty> lo libby
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12:28:35 <sbp> .thesaurus report
12:28:36 <phenny> sbp: tale, statement, description, testimony, story, account, chronicle, narrative, version / loud noise, bang, boom, crash, explosion, shot, noise, echo
12:28:37 <sbp> .thesaurus article
12:28:39 <phenny> sbp: piece of writing, editorial, piece, item, commentary, critique, exposé / object, item, piece, thing, artefact / clause, term, stipulation, condition, regulation, paragraph, section
12:28:40 <sbp> .thesaurus document
12:28:41 <phenny> sbp: text, file, article, essay, paper, manuscript, deed, certificate, record
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13:02:05 <sbp> Williams vs. Williams about to get underway
13:12:42 <sbp> first point, double fault, Venus. wonder if that's happened before?
13:16:45 <sbp> before we get too far into this, I think Serena will win, for the record
13:48:10 <JibberJim> My bet's on Williams
13:48:24 <sbp> I would like to buy your fence...
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13:59:04 <[bjoern]> yo
13:59:31 <sbp> yo!
14:00:05 <deltab> that actually looks like a picket fence on my screen
14:00:21 <sbp> *secret* message
14:00:58 <sbp> and anyway, îîîîîîîîîîîîîîîîîîîîîî is a picket fence
14:01:20 <[bjoern]> good think it's not rendered as newlines
14:01:26 <sbp> yeah...
14:03:13 <[bjoern]> So how is britain celebrating getting rid of "U.S."?
14:03:29 <sbp> by watching two Americans play in a Wimbledon final...
14:04:12 <[bjoern]> .gc "Go eat a virgin"
14:04:12 <phenny> "Go eat a virgin": 1
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14:04:38 <[bjoern]> news is complete and utter fail
14:04:49 <sbp> 1-0 to Serena
14:04:58 * sbp gets a drink
14:05:40 <[bjoern]> "Williams sisters will face off in Wimbledon final"
14:07:09 <sbp> (and food)
14:07:19 <[bjoern]> http://img.rian.ru/images/12193/50/121935085.jpg ~ Medwedew at the Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti
14:07:42 <sbp> not pictured: Mrs. Medwedew
14:07:59 <[bjoern]> pick one http://img.rian.ru/images/12193/50/121935019.jpg
14:08:25 <sbp> hmm. I go for the pretty one
14:08:43 <sbp> predictable, but bold
14:09:02 <[bjoern]> I commend your use of the singular
14:10:05 <[bjoern]> Well RIA Novosti at least has good headlines, ala http://en.rian.ru/culture/20090626/155359379.html
14:10:06 <[bjoern]> .title
14:10:08 <phenny> [bjoern]: Michael Jackson autopsy 'permissible' says top Russian Muslim | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire
14:10:20 <sbp> Swhack ought to have the power to commission studies
14:11:56 <[bjoern]> .wik Kiel Week
14:11:57 <phenny> "Kiel Week (German: Kieler Woche) is an annual sailing event in Kiel, Germany." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_Week
14:12:14 <[bjoern]> Kiel Week a lot more hilarious than Kieler Woche
14:12:22 <sbp> disagree
14:12:26 <[bjoern]> "It is the largest sailing event in the world, and also one of the largest Volksfeste in Europe."
14:12:37 <[bjoern]> .wik Volksfest
14:12:38 <phenny> "A Volksfest is a large event in Germany which combines a festival and a carnival." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksfest
14:13:10 <sbp> festival + carnival = festival
14:13:19 <sbp> carnival + festival = carnival
14:13:19 <Monty> def self.run
14:13:52 <sbp> the non-commutativity of portmanteauism
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14:14:03 <[bjoern]> .title http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090704/155431427.html
14:14:05 <phenny> [bjoern]: Medvedev against ban on alcohol, will fight problem differently | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire
14:14:18 <sbp> see photo above
14:15:03 <[bjoern]> .title http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/11-08-2006/83896-Cyclops-0
14:15:04 <phenny> [bjoern]: Baby Cyclops born in India - Pravda.Ru
14:15:25 <[bjoern]> nearby http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/show_dresses-3333
14:15:27 <[bjoern]> .title
14:15:28 <phenny> [bjoern]: Shocking dresses of Russian stars (photo) - Pravda.Ru
14:15:29 <sbp> only N generations away from Leela
14:15:50 <[bjoern]> some of them are shocking in a bad way
14:16:05 <sbp> http://english.pravda.ru/img/idb/photo/1-3189.jpg
14:16:14 <[bjoern]> actually probably a majority
14:16:14 <sbp> “Marilyn Monroe's look alikes gathered at Hollywood Casino in Cincinnati to find out who is the best look alike of the never-fading movie star”
14:16:51 <sbp> the arsecheek one is hilarious
14:18:01 <[bjoern]> " The German photographer Ivonne Thein shows her new work in Berlin: She photographed "normal weight" models and photoshopped them down to looking like as if they'd weigh 32 kilos. Thein originally wanted to shoot the photos with the "leaders" of the German pro-ana movement she was in touch with during the preparation for her project, but all of the young women finally refused to get physically involved."
14:19:45 <MoiraA> sbp hi
14:19:50 <sbp> hey
14:19:59 <MoiraA> just out of hospital
14:20:06 <sbp> ah, welcome back!
14:20:12 <MoiraA> wrist in plaster so typing is slow
14:20:13 <sbp> did it go well?
14:20:23 <sbp> er, yeah, don't strain yourself!
14:20:35 <MoiraA> yes but was more painful and I was in much longer than I anticipated
14:20:49 <MoiraA> *and* I got a card from freenode!
14:20:50 <sbp> ah, sorry to hear that
14:20:53 <sbp> heh
14:21:16 <MoiraA> sent by Gary but it said "from all freenode staff"
14:26:47 <sbp> hmm, Venus broken with a double fault
14:33:43 <sbp> matchpoint
14:34:08 <sbp> championship point, even
14:35:13 <sbp> and again
14:35:49 <MoiraA> ah pity about andy murrey
14:38:20 <sbp> third one...
14:39:39 <[bjoern]> we could start a guitar pix collection http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/6375_9366.jpeg
14:39:55 <sbp> done it
14:39:57 <sbp> Serena wins
14:40:08 <sbp> [bjoern]: like Wet Riffs?
14:40:22 <[bjoern]> hmm meat http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/6048_5128_480.jpeg
14:40:30 <sbp> hehe
14:42:11 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/6737_cd08.jpeg
14:42:34 <sbp> argh, they never put a price up
14:43:36 <[bjoern]> good way to get to know people sharing your rubber fist enthusiams
14:44:15 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/5914_e94e.jpeg
14:44:21 <sbp> wonder if there are any furry rubber fist enthusiasts?
14:44:33 <sbp> Serena gets a rosewater dish from off of the Union Jack
14:44:53 <MoiraA> ah she won
14:49:32 <[bjoern]> this explains much http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/5999_ffcc.jpeg
14:49:53 <sbp> especially about the person who drew it
14:50:19 <[bjoern]> hmm candy http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/4540_0b61_480.jpeg
14:50:33 <sbp> not the same as the meat woman
14:50:52 <[bjoern]> Yeah it was a cheap followup
14:50:59 <sbp> chup
14:51:08 <laplink> .gc rubber furry fisting
14:51:09 <phenny> rubber furry fisting: 31,800
14:52:17 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/4383_3508.jpeg
14:52:54 <sbp> hehe
14:53:15 <sbp> Tina Fey for President!
14:55:08 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/3856_6446_480.png
14:55:53 <laplink> Is it me or does Sisko manage to look like a complete psycho even while making soufflé?
14:55:57 <sbp> see how many .is wins or comes high in
14:56:20 <[bjoern]> Yeah seeing that started out Iceland fetish
14:56:28 <[bjoern]> laplink: not just you
14:56:31 <sbp> I'd like to know how they measure Effectiveness of Education
14:56:44 Arnia (n=jgeldart@87-194-158-123.bethere.co.uk) has joined #swhack
14:57:11 <sbp> yo Arnia
14:57:29 <[bjoern]> .wik Pisa test
14:57:30 <phenny> "The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a triennial world-wide test of 15-year-old school children's scholastic performance, the implementation of which is coordinated by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisa_test
14:57:32 <[bjoern]> perhaps
14:57:43 <sbp> is that a spelling bee?
14:57:49 <Arnia> hey, one sec... low blood sugar
14:57:52 <sbp> kk
14:58:14 <[bjoern]> I do not know, but it's popular here to point out how much we suck.
14:58:37 <sbp> you win at Mobile Phones!
14:58:42 <sbp> what a wonderful thing to win at
14:58:46 <sbp> the propagation of annoyances
14:59:52 <[bjoern]> Hmm this must be fake http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/4503_ddb2.jpeg
14:59:59 <[bjoern]> she does not look like needing a rescue
15:00:16 <[bjoern]> well, she does, but the games are not about that type of rescue...
15:00:46 <sbp> is that Princess Peach?
15:01:07 <[bjoern]> Zelda
15:01:27 <sbp> didn't Zelda used to have fangs?
15:02:34 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/3352_f4a3_480.jpeg
15:03:02 <sbp> .gcs iEvil GEvil
15:03:03 <phenny> GEvil (6,010), iEvil (1,300)
15:04:06 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/4005_3eba_480.jpeg
15:04:50 <sbp> Zelda again?
15:05:07 <[bjoern]> no
15:06:20 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/3455_15ad_480.jpeg not zelda either
15:08:17 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/2987_dd31_480.jpeg
15:08:22 <sbp> I tried to come up with a DJ name for Spock
15:08:23 <sbp> but fail
15:09:27 <[bjoern]> van vulcan
15:10:52 <sbp> .wik Spock
15:10:53 <phenny> "Spock is a character in the fictional Star Trek media franchise." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock
15:11:59 <sbp> “Early versions had the character ingest energy through a plate in his stomach.”
15:12:46 <sbp> does Spock not have a surname?
15:12:50 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/0674_ef43_480.jpeg
15:13:50 <[bjoern]> "manchmal möchte man ein kannibale sein - nicht um den ein oder anderen aufzufressen, sondern um ihn auszukotzen"
15:19:00 * Arnia shudders at that
15:32:08 <sbp> .c 1.5 miles in km
15:32:09 <phenny> 1.5 miles = 2.414016 kilometers
15:32:25 <[bjoern]> .c pi km in miles
15:32:26 <phenny> pi kilometers = 1.95209517 miles
15:32:33 <[bjoern]> .c phi km in miles
15:32:34 <phenny> the golden ratio kilometers = 1.00539971 miles
15:38:53 <[bjoern]> "Bing: Not Really Gaining on Google" orly
15:40:00 <[bjoern]> "Honeybee mobs overpower hornets" - bbc
15:41:16 <[bjoern]> the nine reasons to celebrate "america" are air conditioning, ice cubes, valet parking, aviation, chewing gum, cracker jack, american cheese, metal detector, and the space pen
15:42:29 <[bjoern]> "The UN's top health official has opened a forum in Mexico on combating swine flu by saying that the spread of the virus worldwide is now unstoppable."
15:42:47 <[bjoern]> "An underground youth culture in Japan which makes a rebellious fashion statement against traditional rules on eastern beauty, is taking hold on Britain's youth."
15:43:15 <[bjoern]> " We're Western girls trying to be Japanese girls, trying to be Western - it seems like a funny circle to go around" -- Gabby, manba follower
15:43:43 <[bjoern]> "I'm quite good friends with some of the girls who do it in America."
15:45:52 <[bjoern]> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33786
15:46:59 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/twitter_creator_on_iran_i
15:46:59 <phenny> [bjoern]: Twitter Creator On Iran: 'I Never Intended For Twitter To Be Useful' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
15:48:10 <[bjoern]> "Dorsey said he is already working on a new website that will be so mind-numbingly useless that Iranians will not even be able to figure out how to operate it."
15:48:15 <[bjoern]> that kinda makes me excited about it
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15:57:03 <[bjoern]> viper, bite Monty
15:57:04 <Monty> plum?
15:57:12 <viper> :)
15:57:23 <viper> sw ? whats meaning
15:58:09 <[bjoern]> Some Wicked
16:00:42 <MoiraA> viper hi
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16:57:17 <[bjoern]> some of these do sound useful http://www.unicode.org/~scherer/emoji4unicode/snapshot/NamesList.txt
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17:01:13 <[bjoern]> 1F3B6 would be useful for pix
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17:39:02 <Monty> welcome, Pupuser402
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18:14:30 <[bjoern]> I am to design an algorithm that incrementally (!) turns a list of words into a compressed trie and answer the question whether it makes sense to first define a function that adds a single word to a compressed trie, keeping it compressed in the process.
18:15:03 <[bjoern]> Incrementally is explained as "word by word"
18:15:31 <[bjoern]> I do not understand how I can build it word by word without, in effect, having such a function
18:15:49 <[bjoern]> it does not really seem wise to use build it word by word
18:16:51 <[bjoern]> in effect, compressed tries, as i understand it anyway, are DFAs with strings as transitions, where you determine the next state based on a single character
18:17:33 <[bjoern]> I would build it essentially by considering all words at once
18:30:51 <laplink> I would suggest a quantum algorithm.
18:31:34 <[bjoern]> I've been afraid of quantum leaps ever since I watched Enterprise.
18:31:38 * MoiraA would like to see an example of one
18:32:15 <laplink> Essentially, the person handing out the assignment may be alive or dead, and you won't know which until the grade is announced.
18:32:47 <[bjoern]> Would I get to lock em in a box?
18:33:11 <laplink> That woulf be traditional, but is strictly optional.
18:33:41 <MoiraA> oh schrodingers box or whoever he was
18:33:53 <[bjoern]> I could hand in a wrong solution and claim they changed the outcome by observing it
18:34:57 <MoiraA> so that is just like the cat in a box
18:34:59 <laplink> First, posit the existance of a working quantum computer…
18:35:31 <[bjoern]> I thought they do exist, but have memory problems
18:35:46 <laplink> …then consider this very large and very heavy stick with which I am currently menacing you.
18:36:00 <[bjoern]> That part is easy
18:36:50 <laplink> Also, as of 3x07, the count stands at onr (and that was in the pilot).
18:36:59 <laplink> er, one
18:37:07 <[bjoern]> Thanks for keeping track
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18:38:23 <[bjoern]> next up is one of the worst episodes
18:39:25 <[bjoern]> and the one after that has Riker, and then Troi
18:39:38 <laplink> oh god
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18:50:08 <MoiraA> [bjoern] the problem with quantum computers is that protons dont travel well
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19:27:21 <Arnia> .c 50000 hours in days
19:27:22 <phenny> 50 000 hours = 2 083.33333 days
19:27:28 <Arnia> .c 50000 hours in years
19:27:28 <phenny> 50 000 hours = 5.70397764 years
19:28:37 <[bjoern]> There goes earning half a million working at 10/hour
19:37:29 <laplink> oh god. not just Riker but his evil twin
19:37:47 <[bjoern]> You can tell from the beard.
19:38:18 <[bjoern]> His name is Riker though.
19:38:35 <[bjoern]> .gc "evil transporter clone"
19:38:36 <phenny> "evil transporter clone": 0
20:10:45 <laplink> phenny: tell sbp http://www.uplinklabs.net/~tycho/projects/xchat-aqua/
20:10:45 <phenny> laplink: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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20:47:25 <Arnia> Oh dear... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0uIrNqJtSk
20:47:43 <[bjoern]> .o youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0uIrNqJtSk
20:47:43 <phenny> http://inamidst.com/stuff/youtube/_0uIrNqJtSk - Elton John - When the Day is Done (2:31, 8,645 views, 4.0/26)
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22:21:27 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/9732_0d30.jpeg
22:22:50 <[bjoern]> http://imgur.com/oZRZK.png
22:24:42 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0377/9545_46de_800.jpeg
22:26:57 <[bjoern]> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0378/0260_f0fa.jpeg
22:39:21 <laplink> I actually quite prefer Elton's version.
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22:53:03 <Arnia> ugh
22:53:15 * Arnia is a Nick Drake fan
22:53:15 <Morbus> laplink: what the hell did he do to the tab bar in xchat? i hope that's not the default. it's fucking hideous
22:53:15 <phenny> Morbus: 03 Jul 17:49Z <sbp> tell Morbus http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124648494429082661.html?mod=yhoofront
22:53:17 <phenny> Morbus: 03 Jul 22:38Z <nslater> tell Morbus http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/02/robogeisha-film-trai.html
23:09:37 <laplink> Morbus: the UI mostly hasn't been touched, and it shouldn't screw with your prefs
23:10:09 <Morbus> laplink: if the tabs have moved to the side there, as in the screensht, the ui has been touched enough ;)
23:10:15 <laplink> Might fuck up your custom scripts (perl, py, tcl) though
23:10:35 <laplink> You've always been able to tweak that stuff.
23:10:56 <Morbus> oh? huh. must've tweaked it to the bottom ages ago and just never saw it again.
23:11:01 <laplink> It has a user option to turn on a Metal interface fer crying out loud!
23:15:08 <laplink> Morbus: running change log is at <http://www.uplinklabs.net/~tycho/projects/xchat-aqua/sparkle/rnotes.html>.
23:15:13 <Morbus> yeah, saw it.
23:15:17 <Morbus> what's sparkle?
23:15:30 <laplink> (iow, not a lot of visible change)
23:15:35 <Morbus> lol.
23:15:46 <Morbus> this particular url won't let me see the page cos it's in ie8.
23:15:49 <Morbus> lame-ass fail.
23:16:18 <laplink> .title http://sparkle.andymatuschak.org/
23:16:19 <phenny> laplink: Sparkle: a free software update framework for the Mac
23:16:23 <Morbus> then he has the audacity to mention that he does chats through MSN.
23:30:36 <nslater> Morbus: chex that link sent yuo! ;p
23:30:40 <nslater> .title http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-June/020620.html
23:30:41 <phenny> nslater: [whatwg] Codecs for <audio> and <video>
23:33:18 <laplink> nslater: feel free to trash Apple on this one; they're more than a little motivated by their desire to protect their investment in QuickTime and MPEG4 (in which they have a significant stake).
23:34:02 <laplink> (they also have some genuine concerns, of course, but…)
23:34:07 <nslater> laplink: I dont understand why you would require any codec at all really
23:34:18 <nslater> laplink: seems pretty temporally provincial
23:34:27 <nslater> laplink: and hence, I think the current direction is a Good Thing
23:34:31 <nslater> laplink: cf. <img>
23:36:27 <laplink> For the same reason there are standards for codecs in television broadcasts and telephone networks.
23:37:23 <laplink> But ostly because the only semi-portable way to do web video today is with Flash, which is very much a proprietary technology (recent moves to make it palatable aside).
23:37:25 <[bjoern]> their idea is to require everything that might be necessary to render every last web page, except for web pages where they disagree with what is required to render them
23:38:18 <[bjoern]> Obviously a bad idea, as that drags you into essentially irrelevant discussions such as this one, wasting many resources better used elsewhere.
23:39:07 <laplink> Every player in web video has a vested interest in “winning” a format war; and the only losers so far are the users of web video (well, and Real).
23:39:50 <nelix> as far as video goes, the free software flash players work fine
23:39:59 <laplink> A baseline codec that every actor had to implement would significantly level the playing field.
23:40:18 <nslater> laplink: tv and the web are fundamentally very different mediums. tv is one -> many, and the web is many -> many,. and yeah, there are lots of video codecs. welcome to video codes. heh. so, lets work to make flash less of a problem, or work on something to replace it - but keep this out of html, it has no place there imo.
23:40:42 <nelix> laplink: internet video is a privlidge, not a right
23:40:43 <[bjoern]> But that is not how "web standards" work, implementers pick and choose what they like and implement that
23:41:28 <laplink> nelix: You might consider staying off the internet when you're hitting the crack pipe.
23:42:17 <nelix> I think <a href="video.ext" class="video"> </a> would do just as well as <video>
23:42:40 <nelix> I'd rather click an link which then opens video, than random flash things starting on their own...
23:42:44 <nslater> it doesnt make much sense to me to require UAs to support a specific codec (that was the original proposal, right?) because like, what if I simply don't want to? heh. or cant? text-mode, etc. html is good as a document format that lets you transclude other media types, but i really dont think it has a place limiting what you can transclude
23:43:00 <nelix> If I really wanted them to auto play, I'm sure I could make my webbrowser do it somehow
23:43:26 <nslater> or rather, not limiting - but tieing itself to media types
23:43:40 <laplink> nslater: A _baseline_ codec. The audio/video tags are design to allow progressive enhancement.
23:43:44 <nelix> I was toying with firefoxs built in ogg, and it seems to me like the codec is in the same thread as the ui? very bad for responsivness
23:44:10 <nslater> laplink: yeah, but lets say we say FooCodec now - in 20, 50 years time that might be hilariously out of date, and yet is still a requirement for anything claiming HTML5 support
23:44:24 <laplink> So?
23:44:35 <nslater> so, what a ballache for implementors. it wont happen. period
23:44:38 <nelix> so then we have
23:44:45 <nelix> <video version="2">
23:44:47 <nslater> its absurd!
23:45:06 <nelix> but then one browser fucks it up
23:45:17 <nelix> so you have some javascript to dynamicly change the version or load some work around
23:45:19 <laplink> And, by the way, in 20-50 years you *still* will not be able to implement MPEG4 in open source software, or in a small software house without significantly deep licensing pockets.
23:46:15 <nelix> the codecs inside ffmpeg/mencoder seem to work great on my PVR?
23:46:21 <nslater> so? what has that to do with anything? my argument is that tieing html to some random media type for video now is incredibly short sighted, and in a few years time will likely be hilariously out of date - the upshot being that it will be ultimately ignored. see hixies comment about implementers implementing what they want anyway, wrt to ogg
23:46:21 <laplink> nslater: Have you seen a media player that didn't support WAV lately?
23:46:36 <nelix> and when I click links they open in mplayer?
23:46:39 <nelix> problem solved.
23:46:58 <laplink> Oh dear gods, you're actually listening to hixie now?
23:47:06 <nslater> yeah, its dangerous I know :p
23:47:06 <[bjoern]> He didn't before?
23:47:33 <nslater> laplink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project
23:47:44 <nslater> laplink: sorry, tired, may not be making the best arguments. hehe
23:47:44 <nelix> This sounds to me like you need a real project to 'fix'
23:48:42 <laplink> The proposal isn't to tie the audio/video tags to some specific codec; it's to force all actors to implement __at_least__ one codec that's common to all, so that _producers_ of audio/video can publish to all users and not just those that happen to have QuickTime installed.
23:48:44 <nslater> laplink: also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_obsolescence
23:49:05 <nslater> laplink: yeah, and in 10 years time they still have to support this weird legacy format that no one gives a shit about any more
23:49:19 <[bjoern]> Like <name just about any other format browsers support> ?
23:49:45 <nelix> laplink: you know much about email?
23:49:58 <nslater> aye, the prevalence of jpeg and gif happened outside of HTML3 :)
23:50:07 <nslater> (to the best of my knowledge)
23:50:12 <laplink> nelix: Seriously, if you must smoke crack, lay off the internet.
23:50:44 <nelix> Pfft, I'm IV'ing crack.
23:51:22 <laplink> nslater: Bitmap image formats was another case of having to pick which browser you wanted to support, for a long time.
23:51:57 <laplink> Still is if you have cause to use PNG.
23:53:48 <laplink> Audio was not such a problem, oddly enough, since *everyone* supported WAV and AIFF as baseline codecs; which, incidentally, has not at all hindered the adoption of MPEG 1 Layer 3.
23:54:48 * [bjoern] tries to recall level of midi support
23:54:56 <laplink> Generally poor.
23:54:59 <[bjoern]> There must be a geocities page documenting it...
23:55:27 <laplink> Late Mosaic + early Mozilla, wasn't it?
23:55:56 <laplink> I'm pretty sure it was dropped before Netscape came along, but my memory may be playing tricks on me there.
23:56:15 <nelix> I wish audiotool has midi out
23:56:48 <nelix> It's almost awesome enough to make me not hate flash
23:57:49 <[bjoern]> well google turned up nothing useful
23:59:13 <laplink> But… but… it has a left margin and everything!
23:59:29 <[bjoern]> Don't tell me you are getting that too now