Swhack! 31 December 2009

00:09:36 <archels> .ety indigence
00:09:38 <phenny> "late 14c., from O.Fr. indigence (13c.), from L. indigentia, from indigentem (nom. indigens), prp. of indigere 'to need,' from indu 'in, within' + egere 'be in need, want.'" - http://etymonline.com/?term=indigence
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00:46:47 <kpreid> [[[
00:46:47 <kpreid> Not recently, but the most stupid mistake I've probably ever made is a statement of the form
00:46:47 <kpreid> int x;
00:46:47 <kpreid> assert( (x = someFunc()) > 0);
00:46:47 <kpreid> DoSomethingWith(x);
00:46:48 <kpreid> Works beautifully until you eventually create a release version of your code with asserts disabled. It can be be very hard to figure out what went wrong.
00:46:50 <kpreid> ]]] -- http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ajzi7/share_the_dumbest_coding_mistake_youve_made/c0hyssf
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01:24:18 <drigz> i need the internet to make a decision for me
01:24:22 <drigz> can anyone help?
01:24:31 <drigz> i can't decide what to get to eat tonight
01:25:53 <drigz> empty :(
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02:22:01 <KragenSitaker> hi there.
02:25:31 <KragenSitaker> does anyone have a recommendation for books about the Bronze Age Collapse?
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02:38:51 <KragenSitaker> hi schepers
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02:39:07 <shepazu> hi, KragenSitaker
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02:40:00 <shepazu> whoops, bbiab
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03:03:20 <nsh> checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_collapse#References ? KragenSitaker
03:03:52 <nsh> http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwcanoniccom-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=bronze%20age%20collapse
03:04:09 <nsh> (sorry, i hadn't even heard of this, so i'm probably being no help at all)
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03:12:30 <KragenSitaker> I hadn't actually
03:12:42 <KragenSitaker> I found a different book by Brian Fagan when I went to the bookstore, about the Little Ice Age
03:13:25 <KragenSitaker> I could probably look for those
03:13:51 <KragenSitaker> too bad there's no Spanish version of this page to find references in Spanish
03:21:40 <KragenSitaker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpbalZ5DUbE is a moving rendition of the Ballad of Springhill
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03:31:16 <KragenSitaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_VII seems to have fallen at the time of the Bronze Age Collapse
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03:43:37 <Monty> howdy, jeffarch
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06:39:07 <[bjoern]> My first non-trivial python Applikation has 192 lines of code, for the record, at the time of "seems to work now".
06:42:14 <[bjoern]> if there was a strict mode that'd tell me of variables i am using without ever initializing them, I would not have had to find a bug through code review just now.
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07:02:49 <KragenSitaker> when you use a variable in Python without initializing it, it throws a NameError exception
07:03:33 <KragenSitaker> or UnboundLocalError under some circumstances
07:03:56 <KragenSitaker> but at run-time, not compil-time
07:04:00 <[bjoern]> Yeah, but that is not very useful in rarely used code.
07:12:44 <deltab> hence coverage testing
07:13:44 <[bjoern]> In my case that would have required a mock object to simulate real world events.
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07:48:50 <KragenSitaker> Yes, Python doesn't do much static checking
07:49:24 <KragenSitaker> mock objects are good for you. grow hair on your chest.
08:02:03 <[bjoern]> KragenSitaker: By the way, do I recall correctly you doing utf-8 character counting golf?
08:21:17 <KragenSitaker> something like that
08:21:37 <KragenSitaker> what we were really trying to do was see how few CPU cycles we could get per character
08:21:51 <[bjoern]> Right, I came across that cross-blog chatter when trying to find utf-8 decoder benchmarks to compare http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de/utf-8/decoder/dfa/ to.
08:22:07 <KragenSitaker> ah, cool
08:22:30 <KragenSitaker> but we weren't doing "golf" in the sense of trying to get the source code to as few bytes as possible
08:22:43 <KragenSitaker> the reason being that Aristotle thought it was stupid to store text in UTF-16 or UCS-4 in order to speed up access to it
08:22:47 <[bjoern]> bytes, cycles, ...
08:23:21 <KragenSitaker> since random access into a text string is unnecessary; what you need is to be able to iterate over its code points efficiently
08:23:46 <KragenSitaker> in, generally speaking, one direction.
08:23:47 <[bjoern]> That's precisely what my code does.
08:24:00 <[bjoern]> With a convenient interface, by my standards anyway.
08:24:04 <KragenSitaker> it's also what Go does when you iterate over a string
08:24:58 <KragenSitaker> your code looks cool
08:25:08 <[bjoern]> Thanks!
08:25:59 <KragenSitaker> about error recovery: do you know about UTF8B?
08:26:33 <KragenSitaker> it's a hack that maps malformed UTF-8 sequences to low-half surrogates [which aren't valid Unicode code points]
08:27:00 * [bjoern] heard about such attempts, not by that name though
08:27:24 <KragenSitaker> so the UTF-8B decoding process is information-preserving and reversible, and is the UTF-8 decoding process for strings that aren't malformed
08:29:35 <[bjoern]> To me that's pretty much preserving the information at the wrong layer. If it's not a character string, store it as binary data.
08:34:40 <KragenSitaker> well, one of the nice things about Unix is that character strings are binary data.
08:34:56 <KragenSitaker> Or, that is, binary data is character strings.
08:36:21 <KragenSitaker> This was a big step forward over many other operating systems, both before and after Unix (VAX/VMS, OS/360, C compilers on MS-DOS) that treat the two differently.
08:37:05 <KragenSitaker> So it's disappointing when that brain-damage follows us to our happy little Unix paradise and stabs us in the crotch.
08:37:50 * [bjoern] finds the historical perspective on this kind of thing somewhat difficult, considering back then space preservation was of paramount concern and there was no universal method of coding characters
08:39:47 <KragenSitaker> by "space preservation" are you referring to how OS/360 and FORTH would represent a newline by including enough spaces to get you to the byte offset where the next line began?
08:40:21 <KragenSitaker> which meant that you couldn't have lines over 80 (or 64) characters, and spaces at the end of the line were nonexistent?
08:41:02 <[bjoern]> No, I mean that people would run away screaming if anyone suggested to store ascii text with 16 or even 32 bits per character.
08:41:44 <KragenSitaker> oh, sure.
08:42:38 <KragenSitaker> but that's a mere matter of efficiency; making the correct preservation and processing of some blob depend on some extrinsic piece of metadata about how it's encoded is a matter of correctness
08:44:57 <KragenSitaker> (clearly that's an argument that only reaches so far...)
08:46:37 * [bjoern] is very annoyed with the level of unicode support / strange unicode behavior in python 2.5
08:48:31 <KragenSitaker> yeah :(
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08:50:10 <[bjoern]> Doing a print, can choose between "UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe1' in position 54: ordinal not in range(128)" and "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 7: ordinal not in range(128)", depending on whether I use .encode('utf-8') or not, which solved the problem a few lines later earlier.
08:51:24 <KragenSitaker> you can also get neither!
08:51:36 <[bjoern]> not so far
08:52:42 <KragenSitaker> if Python would just assume that everything is UTF-8B unless otherwise specified, this problem would never exist
08:53:14 <KragenSitaker> but instead it takes the approach you were advocating earlier, of distinguishing character strings from binary data
08:53:20 * [bjoern] If Python would have only a char* type...
08:53:32 <[bjoern]> Yeah but it does that very poorly!
08:53:47 <KragenSitaker> it does? how?
08:54:47 <[bjoern]> Well, as example, urllib.urlencode cannot take a dict with unicode keys, and it cannot take an encoding parameter, so you have to reimplement the thing.
08:56:36 <[bjoern]> Earlier i was using pyyaml to parse yaml, I did not even notice that thing doesn't do the right unicode magic there until I switched to reading the equivalent json, where the right magic happens.
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09:00:46 <KragenSitaker> yeah, I guess there are a lot of pieces of code that predate unicode support in Python entirely
09:12:51 <[bjoern]> Can't figure out how to get rid of the error above
09:13:06 <[bjoern]> Don't even know why print would try to both encode and decode what I pass to it
09:21:22 <KragenSitaker> I don't think it would
09:21:33 <KragenSitaker> I think it just tries to encode it
09:22:01 <[bjoern]> Well it must, otherwise I would not get a Decode error when passing bytes and an Encode error when passing characters (or the other way round)
09:23:13 <KragenSitaker> what is the print statement?
09:23:24 <[bjoern]> print("%s %s %s" % (evt.when, evt.type, evt.page))
09:23:53 <[bjoern]> where when is a datetime thing, type should be a unicode, and evt.page is a unicode.
09:24:50 <[bjoern]> ah I see if i .encode .type *and* .page it seems to do
09:25:02 <[bjoern]> (.type is pure ascii)
09:25:09 <KragenSitaker> there you go
09:25:46 <KragenSitaker> so python 3000 removes all the normal string manipulation functions from the sequence-of-bytes type
09:25:58 <KragenSitaker> you have to do things like string interpolation entirely in unicode-land
09:26:00 * [bjoern] does not think he should have to .encode anything there, but lacks alternatives... especially suggestions to set stdout to utf-8 tend to be incorrect / not working / insane
09:26:33 <KragenSitaker> you can't replace stdout with an encoded file?
09:26:45 <KragenSitaker> or you just don't think it would be a good idea?
09:27:21 <[bjoern]> I tried things like "sys.stdout = codecs.EncodedFile(sys.stdout, 'utf-8')" with little success
09:27:57 <KragenSitaker> what sort of little success?
09:28:48 <KragenSitaker> hmm, I get a UnicodeEncodeError...
09:28:52 * [bjoern] does not really recall
09:29:09 <[bjoern]> It did not remove the exception, in any case
09:29:20 <KragenSitaker> oh, that doesn't let you write unicode to the file, sadly
09:29:33 <KragenSitaker> it lets you write byte strings in a different encoding to it
09:29:52 <[bjoern]> I am getting the impression print() just does not work with unicode.
09:30:06 <KragenSitaker> well, sometimes it does
09:30:39 <[bjoern]> if stdout already is in an unicode encoding through weird env variables, that's what I got so far.
09:30:49 <KragenSitaker> right
09:31:42 <KragenSitaker> and you can inspect sys.stdout.encoding to see if it's in that mode
09:31:48 <KragenSitaker> but you can't change it
09:32:37 <[bjoern]> Actually that gave me some exception that cStringIO StringO or whatever does not have .encoding
09:33:17 <KragenSitaker> sys.stdout is not normally a StringIO
09:33:18 <[bjoern]> (it works on the console, but not in the cgi)
09:33:25 <KragenSitaker> oh, okay
09:33:30 <KragenSitaker> yeah
09:36:32 <KragenSitaker> anyway, the problem is that people use different encodings. if everyone just used UTF-8B, there would be no problem.
09:36:56 <KragenSitaker> which has the benefit that it already interoperates seamlessly with ASCII and UTF-8, which are a pretty large fraction of the world
09:37:41 <KragenSitaker> oh hey
09:37:44 * [bjoern] would use utf-8 (even) more, if there weren't so many applications having issues with the utf-8 BOM
09:37:44 <KragenSitaker> getwriter?
09:38:11 <KragenSitaker> why would you put a BOM in UTF-8? there's only one byte order for UTF-8.
09:38:20 <[bjoern]> I tried sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter('utf-8')(sys.stdout.buffer) too, didn't help in the console
09:38:47 <KragenSitaker> drop the .buffer bit
09:38:54 <[bjoern]> Tried that too, did not help
09:38:59 <KragenSitaker> works for me
09:39:07 <KragenSitaker> unlike everything previously discussed
09:39:14 <[bjoern]> Because it is a Unicode signature and helps to avoid misdetection of the encoding. Besides, it is not so much me using it, but applications I use inserting it. Like notepad.
09:39:57 <KragenSitaker> yeah, notepad is a problem that way
09:40:13 <[bjoern]> Does not work in this sense:
09:40:14 <[bjoern]> >>> sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter('utf-8')(sys.stdout)
09:40:15 <[bjoern]> >>> sys.stdout.encoding
09:40:15 <[bjoern]> 'cp850'
09:40:15 <Monty> Doing a travesty
09:40:17 <KragenSitaker> but the whole point of UTF-8 is that you don't need a BOM
09:40:32 <KragenSitaker> well, okay
09:40:39 <KragenSitaker> but you can write unicode strings to it now
09:41:28 <[bjoern]> Yeah that does seem to be the case in the console
09:41:45 <KragenSitaker> I am pretty sure it is the case in general, although obviously I'm no expert
09:42:13 <[bjoern]> In Perl I just do binmode STDOUT, ':utf8' and be done with it...
09:43:35 <KragenSitaker> in a sanely designed language you wouldn't have to do anything
09:43:45 <KragenSitaker> unless, of course, you actually did set your terminal to CP850
09:43:46 <[bjoern]> Also seems to do in the cgi
09:44:07 <[bjoern]> My terminal is of course cp850, this is german windows after all.
09:44:40 <KragenSitaker> you are in a state of sin
09:44:53 <KragenSitaker> may Pike forgive you
09:45:31 <[bjoern]> Yeah, I am not sure why, but I do prefer the german version for some reason.
09:45:44 <[bjoern]> With Linux the german version is usually more awful.
09:56:28 <KragenSitaker> I doubt the English version is any better.
09:57:59 <[bjoern]> That's why I am using Windows.
10:00:36 <KragenSitaker> No, I meant of Windows.
10:00:42 <KragenSitaker> Linux is pretty excellent these days.
10:00:58 <KragenSitaker> but then, I've been using it for 13 years
10:01:52 <[bjoern]> My Linux experience only barely involves GUI, other than that I've been using it since ... I would guess for about the same time.
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10:59:09 <sbp> yo
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11:07:18 <[bjoern]> SBP INQUIRY FOLLOWS
11:08:00 <[bjoern]> any good unicodes for "deleted", "kept", "no decision yet"?
11:09:46 <[bjoern]> Could use U+271D for deleted, but then not sure about the others
11:09:57 <sbp> I'd go for ✘ for deleted
11:10:03 <sbp> and good old fashioned ? for pending
11:10:07 <sbp> not sure about kept
11:10:28 <[bjoern]> 2718 is not that bad
11:10:30 <sbp> possibly just ✔
11:10:52 <[bjoern]> yeah. but i don't really like 2714.
11:11:07 <sbp> yeah, it's not as good as 2718
11:11:15 <sbp> though it's the obvious pair to it
11:12:04 <sbp> if you wanted to be funny...
11:12:18 <sbp> you could use ♖ for keep
11:12:28 <sbp> (castle, keep, blah blah)
11:12:48 <[bjoern]> Does not work with germans.
11:14:29 <[bjoern]> Unicode is full of hoboglyphs.
11:14:40 <sbp> warumbitte
11:14:48 <[bjoern]> I do not know.
11:15:09 <[bjoern]> One reason is that they don't tend to consult us before adding or not adding glyphs.
11:15:34 <sbp> yeah I've always thought they should change that
11:15:38 <sbp> for example, they need CROWN
11:16:04 <sbp> though ♔ might work for that
11:16:58 <[bjoern]> Curious there is no ✝ pendant.
11:16:59 <sbp> also, where the heck is DOUBLE CIRCUMFLEX already?
11:17:50 <[bjoern]> And the QUADRA DIAERESIS with one on each side.
11:18:15 <sbp> ooh, want
11:18:54 <sbp> oh right, they did add DC already
11:19:06 <sbp> 1DCD
11:19:22 <[bjoern]> People had been all ☠ about it.
11:19:25 <sbp> heh
11:19:54 <sbp> oo᷍
11:20:01 <sbp> should work, only I'll bet it doesn't
11:20:19 <[bjoern]> None of the non-ascii glyphs here did for me...
11:20:20 <sbp> I will give one million internets to anybody who gives me a screenshot of that rendering properly within the next 5 minutes
11:21:10 <[bjoern]> That I could arrange, but I bet those are second hand internets.
11:21:57 <sbp> woah, it works for me now. almost
11:22:57 <sbp> http://imagebin.ca/img/5uT7Pau.png
11:23:10 <sbp> close. ish. almost
11:23:23 <sbp> (figured I just needed an Everson Mono update)
11:25:19 <sbp> question
11:25:27 <sbp> why does Webkit render <sup> so damn stupidly?
11:26:18 <[bjoern]> There are several reasons. None of them funny enough to bother mentioning.
11:26:52 <sbp> rattefucke
11:28:41 <sbp> I have made a demonstration
11:28:48 <sbp> http://imagebin.ca/img/jEAjHx5.png
11:29:47 <sbp> now, you'd think you could fix this by changing the line-height right?
11:29:59 <sbp> but when you increase the line-height, the problem is still there!
11:30:07 <[bjoern]> Perhaps Jobs found it made Ballmer throw cupboards across the couch.
11:30:18 <sbp> the <sup> just seems to add extra proportional space, not a margin-like thing
11:30:23 <sbp> heh, maybe
11:30:47 <sbp> so the only other thing you can do is:
11:30:52 <sbp> sup { vertical-align: 33% }
11:31:04 <sbp> but that looks monummmMmmentally! stupid in other browsers
11:32:16 <sbp> it'd be nice to be able to use fractions in CSS
11:32:21 <sbp> sup { vertical-align: 1/3 }
11:32:50 <[bjoern]> A badness exponent of at least ¹⁰⁰⁰₉.
11:32:57 <sbp> gah, Opera does it too. only the 33% trick doesn't work there
11:33:07 <sbp> browsers, pls2get your shit together
11:33:25 <[bjoern]> Can't even muster a "lol" to that.
11:33:41 <sbp> can I get a l⁰l?
11:33:55 <sbp> hmm. L⁰L looks better
11:34:17 <[bjoern]> L⁽⁾L?
11:35:27 <sbp> ah, sup { vertical-align: 20% } fixes it in Opera
11:37:15 <sbp> heh. I loaded Firefox to try it
11:37:32 <sbp> and it crashed before I could view a single page
11:37:47 <sbp> that's pretty talented
11:38:12 <sbp> ooh, no, it just hung. it's come back!
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11:40:13 * sbp gets the new Firefox beta
11:40:19 <sbp> 3.6b5
11:41:26 <sbp> gonna try loading one smegmomillion tabs in it, see how it does
11:41:53 <sbp> my theory is that browsers should not crash in such situations
11:42:34 <[bjoern]> Welcome to earth, spatial being of preconceptions.
11:43:34 <sbp> I'm going to open the same tabs in a new Safari and new Firefox session
11:43:39 <sbp> and see which eats up the most memory
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11:46:37 <sbp> Firefox is struggling already, Safari is unhappy but not really struggling
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11:47:57 <sbp> wow, Firefox memory usage is actually going down
11:48:01 <sbp> I've never seen that happen in Safari
11:48:07 <sbp> Firefox - 730 MB
11:48:14 <sbp> Safari - 1.02 GB
11:50:17 <sbp> both browsers struggling a bit now
11:50:20 <sbp> Firefox is much worse though
11:50:27 <sbp> when I try to switch tabs, it just hangs and hangs for ages
11:51:07 * [bjoern] ponders implementing a grouping sort. like, two comp operators, if the first says eq, sort only those in the eq group by the second
11:51:10 <sbp> despite, incidentally, still using less memory than Safari
11:51:25 <sbp> in fact, now that I've opened more tabs, it's using less memory than it was before
11:51:29 <sbp> just under 700 MB now
11:51:44 <sbp> of course, the window isn't actually even coming up
11:51:52 <sbp> so it's using 700 MB to do essentially nothing
11:53:30 <sbp> Safari is using about 23% CPU, Firefox 65%
11:53:33 <sbp> same tabs, remember
11:53:46 <sbp> 17 and 73 now
11:54:36 <sbp> closing all tabs in each
11:55:02 <sbp> no change in memory use in either
11:55:04 <sbp> good stuff
12:02:07 <sbp> hmm. people say good things about arora
12:02:11 <sbp> gonna give it a go
12:02:17 <sbp> it's one of those minimal webkit wrapper browsers
12:03:53 <sbp> crashed on opening
12:08:43 <[bjoern]> Have datetime want "%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ" string, python plz
12:09:41 <sbp> http://www.mackozer.com/2009/05/22/web-browsers-for-mac-os-x/
12:09:48 <sbp> [bjoern]: .strftime(fmt)
12:10:08 <[bjoern]> "argument must be 9-item sequence"
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12:11:40 <Monty> yo Xanthor|aw!
12:13:50 <[bjoern]> datetime.datetime.utcnow().isoformat() and strip the part after the dot :|
12:14:59 <sbp> oh yeah, forgot about isoformat()
12:15:35 <sbp> but, as I said:
12:15:35 <sbp> >>> datetime.datetime.utcnow().strftime("%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ")
12:15:35 <sbp> '2009-12-31T12:15:05Z'
12:15:36 <[bjoern]> Fortunately s/\..*$/Z/ is totally simple in python
12:15:54 <[bjoern]> Yeah I was using time instead...
12:16:25 <archels> sbp: Any feelings about Opera?
12:16:28 <sbp> >>> datetime.datetime.utcnow().isoformat().split('.')[0] + 'Z'
12:16:28 <sbp> '2009-12-31T12:15:58Z'
12:16:37 <[bjoern]> cheating
12:16:51 <sbp> archels: yes, but I try to suppress them
12:17:05 <sbp> to be honest, I don't like Opera at all
12:17:29 <archels> oh? I haven't used anything but since version 5 or so.
12:17:46 <sbp> I've always thought the UI was a bit of a mess
12:18:16 <archels> You'll like the upcoming 10.5 then. They've thrown away the menu bar, and it generally looks very slick.
12:18:35 <archels> And you can customize everything.
12:19:09 <sbp> 10.5?
12:19:16 <sbp> Opera says it's 10.10 at the moment
12:19:22 <[bjoern]> That sounds scary archels.
12:19:31 <[bjoern]> "the upcoming 10.5"
12:19:31 <sbp> Build 6795
12:19:40 <[bjoern]> 5 > 10 obviously
12:19:49 <archels> sbp: It's in beta.
12:20:26 <archels> I suppose I should've said 10.50.
12:20:42 <sbp> ah
12:20:50 <sbp> okay, I'll download the beta
12:20:57 <sbp> and then I'll do the gazillion tab test against Safari
12:21:14 <archels> swell
12:21:46 <sbp> hmm. Opera beta on Google led me to http://snapshot.opera.com/mac/
12:21:54 <sbp> but that only has betas up to 10.0
12:22:07 <archels> http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/12/22/
12:22:27 <sbp> thanks
12:22:53 <sbp> hmm
12:22:54 <sbp> [[[
12:22:54 <sbp> Some specific known issues:
12:22:54 <sbp> High memory usage
12:22:55 <sbp> ]]]
12:23:01 <sbp> so will be an unfair test, I suppose
12:23:04 <sbp> but I'll give it a bash anyway
12:24:52 * [bjoern] was all "Opera for Mac looks awful. Oh wait, that's not Opera, that's Safari. No, wait, it is Opera!"
12:25:28 <sbp> Non-modal dialogs = awesome, by the way
12:25:59 <sbp> okay here we go. things are about to happen
12:26:20 * MacTed runs
12:28:52 <sbp> the first page I tried to load was http://news.bbc.co.uk/
12:29:01 <sbp> hasn't loaded yet, despite numerous retries
12:29:14 <sbp> works fine in Safari, so not a network issue
12:29:26 <archels> odd
12:29:30 <archels> firewall exception?
12:30:15 <sbp> well, http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/12/22/ loads
12:30:34 <sbp> Google loads too, but very slowly
12:30:42 <sbp> in fact, images won't load
12:31:11 * [bjoern] suspects teh opera intarnetfaster is enabled by default
12:31:23 <sbp> searching for "test" in Google hangs
12:31:31 <sbp> nope, Opera Turbo is off
12:31:39 <sbp> I'll turn it on, see if that helps
12:31:44 <archels> I was about to say... they have some accelerator doohickey.
12:31:50 * [bjoern] suspects, then, that's the desired reaction
12:31:51 <archels> oh, well, off should be okay.
12:32:27 <sbp> nope, BBC News and Google both hang still whether it's off or on
12:32:33 <archels> I can't say what it could possibly be; everything is working fine here.
12:33:02 <sbp> restarted the browser. still hanging
12:33:17 <sbp> the progress bar is at 100% and says "Elements: 14/14"
12:33:26 <sbp> but it doesn't display anything, and the progress bar is still animated
12:33:36 <sbp> ah! it loaded!
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12:35:37 <sbp> archels: how do I make it load tabs in background?
12:35:47 <sbp> rather than focussing on new tabs when I open them
12:35:51 <sbp> can't find the relevant preference
12:35:52 <archels> With javascript, or by mouse?
12:35:56 <sbp> by mouse
12:36:35 <archels> Under preferences -> advanced -> shortcuts -> middle click options
12:37:55 <sbp> it already had "Open in background tab"
12:38:01 <sbp> but it's focussing on the tab, switching to that tab
12:38:07 <sbp> which isn't what I want
12:38:20 <[bjoern]> middle click on a mac?
12:38:50 <sbp> well, it's Command-Click
12:39:13 <archels> Sorry, I guess you had been better off using a release.
12:39:29 <archels> Everything's working as it should here though (on Vista).
12:39:54 <[bjoern]> I strongly suspect Cmdr. Click is not to be confused with Mi Ddel Click.
12:40:50 <sbp> maybe, but I don't see any Command-Click options
12:42:10 <[bjoern]> cmd-shift-click is one suggestion
12:43:02 <sbp> this will be tried
12:43:09 <sbp> works, thanks
12:43:22 <[bjoern]> I am the allmighty google user.
12:46:36 <sbp> Opera is using 100 MB less memory and less CPU too
12:46:40 <sbp> also is a bit more responsive
12:48:02 <archels> excellent
12:49:12 <sbp> Opera does that Google Chrome thing where when you load too many tabs they all become teensy. Safari puts them in a side dropdown menu
12:49:24 <sbp> is there a way to get a similar list of tabs in Opera?
12:49:40 <sbp> ah, Window seems to have a list
12:49:41 <archels> You can set a multi-line tab bar.
12:50:20 <archels> I think you can also add them to the sidebar.
12:50:48 <sbp> you can resize them, apparently
12:50:57 <sbp> which is nice. only vertically though, and it has made it hang somewhat
12:51:56 <sbp> ah yes, managed to get it in the sidebar
12:55:21 <sbp> hmm, that's actually kinda nifty
12:58:21 <sbp> needs a keyboard shortcut though
12:59:16 <archels> Indeed, I run my own shortcuts. One I particularly like is '1' for going one tab to the left, and '2' for going to the right.
12:59:48 <archels> and ctrl+B for Paste-and-Go
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13:00:05 <sbp> nice
13:01:06 <sbp> ah: http://www.opera.com/browser/tutorials/nomouse/#panels
13:01:53 <sbp> doesn't work, unfortunately
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13:03:14 <sbp> Ctrl+0 zooms in for some reason
13:03:29 <sbp> oh, have to use F7 first it seems
13:06:22 <sbp> doesn't work. no combination I can think of works
13:07:44 <sbp> hmm
13:09:25 <sbp> gonna try it in 10.10
13:10:45 <sbp> yeah, works there
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13:11:11 <[bjoern]> hmm javascript, {"x": "y"}, how to concisely retrieve the "x", assuming there is only one property?
13:11:35 <[bjoern]> (more to the point, I want the "y")
13:12:08 <sbp> use [0]
13:12:18 <sbp> they're a hash/array hybrid
13:12:49 <[bjoern]> Yeah as if that would work.
13:13:24 <sbp> hmm, yeah
13:13:34 <sbp> should do though. stupid thing
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13:23:49 <sbp> history export from Opera looks like it might be easy
13:24:05 <sbp> format is like this:
13:24:06 <sbp> --
13:24:07 <sbp> Welcome to Opera
13:24:07 <sbp> http://www.opera.com/portal/startup/
13:24:07 <sbp> 1262262384
13:24:07 <sbp> -1
13:24:08 <sbp> http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/12/21/
13:24:10 <sbp> http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/12/21/
13:24:12 <sbp> 1262262457
13:24:14 <sbp> -1
13:24:16 <sbp> --
13:24:18 <sbp> not sure what the -1 number is about
13:24:20 <sbp> sometimes it's a higher value
13:24:24 <sbp> presumably the other number is the timestamp
13:24:29 <[bjoern]> not visited before?
13:24:29 <sbp> .py time.time()
13:24:31 <phenny> 1262265871.47
13:24:49 <sbp> don't think so, because look at a sample of where it's larger:
13:24:50 <sbp> --
13:24:50 <sbp> BBC NEWS | News Front Page
13:24:51 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/
13:24:51 <sbp> 1262263356
13:24:53 <sbp> 1935733
13:24:56 <sbp> --
13:24:58 <sbp> what could 1935733 mean?
13:25:09 <[bjoern]> That you spend a lot of time on the site.
13:25:12 <sbp> hehe
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13:33:40 <sbp> [bjoern]:
13:33:42 <sbp> a = {"x": "y"}
13:33:42 <sbp> Object
13:33:42 <sbp> for (thing in a) { answer = a[thing]; break }
13:33:42 <sbp> y
13:33:42 <sbp> answer
13:33:43 <sbp> y
13:40:19 <[bjoern]> Yeah but that's not concise, is it
13:41:04 <[bjoern]> Also, that probably should have a hasOwnPropery guard
13:41:46 <sbp> after some consideration of the matter which you have put before me I have decided that in both the general and specific application of the word to the case to which you pertain, in no way or manner can this operation within Javascript as pasted above be considered to belong to the class of those things which are colloquially termed concise
13:41:48 <[bjoern]> In Perl it'd be, my ($v) = values (x => "y") ...
13:42:04 <[bjoern]> nu
13:44:08 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to buy guitar strings for goodness; sake
13:44:23 <sbp> GOODNESS’
13:44:30 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to buy D'Addario. er, get 9s I suppose. hmm. or one set of 9s and one of 10s. hmm. think about it
13:44:32 <Monty> sbp: You asked me to remind you to DO IT
13:44:37 <sbp> FINE SHUT UP
13:46:45 <sbp> .title http://amazon.co.uk/dp/B000IL5LIC
13:46:49 <phenny> sbp: No title found
13:47:06 <sbp> .title http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000IL5LIC
13:47:10 <phenny> sbp: No title found
13:47:41 <[bjoern]> pix looks like Verhüterli packaging.
13:47:49 <sbp> heh, the <title> is half way down the page
13:48:38 <sbp> anyway, bought
13:48:40 * sbp hugs Amazon
13:49:27 <sbp> was going to get http://amazon.co.uk/dp/B000CC4JFS
13:49:32 <sbp> but, suparpostage costs
13:49:38 <nsh> WHAT HAPS
13:49:44 <nsh> WHAT HAPS HAR?!
13:49:55 <sbp> STRINGS FOR GUITAR WHAT HAVE BEEN BOUGHT
13:50:17 <sbp> also [bjoern] is trying to get "y" from {"x": "y"} in Javascript concisely
13:50:31 <sbp> and I'm trying to work out what the mysterious field in global_history.dat from Opera is
13:50:56 <nsh> COOLS
13:51:28 <sbp> .img Verhüterli
13:51:29 <phenny> sbp: http://static.rp-online.de/layout/showbilder/25508-BEJ04-104726-pih.jpg
13:51:30 <phenny> More here: http://images.google.com/images?q=Verh%C3%BCterli
13:51:38 <nsh> YOU HAVE TO VERBOSE SO MUCH THAT IT WRAPS ROUND TO LACONIC
13:52:02 <sbp> verbose: yes
13:52:58 <[bjoern]> At least parsing iso dates is simple if you ignore doing things properly, javascript:"2009-12-31T13:10:42Z".split(/[-T:Z]/)
13:55:27 <sbp> sexfox
13:58:13 <[bjoern]> .gc +JabbaScript
13:58:14 <phenny> +JabbaScript: 113
14:00:13 <nsh> .gc JURBASCRIPT
14:00:14 <phenny> JURBASCRIPT: 0
14:00:28 <[bjoern]> .gc +"usr bin nsh"
14:00:29 <phenny> +"usr bin nsh": 17
14:04:31 <nsh> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ak3rd/hey_reddit_what_do_you_look_like_right_now/
14:04:45 <nsh> that thread is an excellent example of something. what do you think it might be?
14:05:00 <nsh> (clue: a statistical concept)
14:05:15 <[bjoern]> redditcurb.
14:05:36 <sbp> the Javascript is handy/scary
14:07:03 <nsh> the right answer was: SELF-SELECTING SAMPLE
14:07:22 <nsh> for the first half of the thread, i was like: HOLY SHIT, REDDIT IS FULL OF HOT BIZNITCH!!!1111
14:07:38 <nsh> then i realised that attractive girls are far more likely contribute to the thread
14:07:45 <nsh> and men who think they're funny
14:08:19 <nsh> though, i also thought of the javascript thing
14:08:26 <nsh> you could totally subvert a website with javascript
14:08:35 <nsh> all it takes is that one bookmarklet to turn reddit into 4chan
14:08:39 <[bjoern]> or supvert it.
14:09:04 <[bjoern]> although that requires elevated skillz.
14:09:13 <nsh> what if anon starts hanging in microsoft support threads with a js bookmarklet that imports a CSS and harvests comments from bug tickets...
14:09:20 <nsh> I MUST PROPOSE THIS IMMEDIATELY
14:09:40 <[bjoern]> strictly speaking, that is not required of you.
14:09:50 <nsh> true
14:11:25 <nsh> SUPERHEROS TAKE NOTE: http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/091216-reappearing-particle-trio.html
14:11:26 <nsh> .title
14:11:29 <phenny> nsh: Strange Physical Theory Proved After Nearly 40 Years | LiveScience
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14:21:07 <[bjoern]> String(362342834).replace(/(..?.?)(?=(...)*$)/g, "$1 ")
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14:32:51 <[bjoern]> .u g t o e
14:32:52 <phenny> U+2265 GREATER-THAN OR EQUAL TO (≥)
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15:00:58 <nsh> sbp
15:01:01 <nsh> incoming cools for you
15:01:11 <nsh> lisppaste2, url
15:01:12 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
15:01:12 MacTed (n=Thud@63.119.36.36) has joined #swhack
15:01:12 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's MacTed!
15:18:22 <lisppaste2> nsh pasted "Friendly numbers" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92862
15:18:28 <nsh> (sorry, slow transcription)
15:18:35 <nsh> SBPSBPSBPSBP
15:25:10 * [bjoern] writes a { "td": [{"class":"cell"}, "I AM CELL"] } based json html template engine...
15:25:17 * [bjoern] ... done!
15:26:04 <[bjoern]> .wik Amicable number
15:26:05 <phenny> "Amicable numbers are two different numbers so related that the sum of the proper divisors of one of the numbers is equal to the other. (A proper divisor of a number is a positive integer divisor other than the number itself." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicable_number
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15:43:53 <sbp> nsh: nice
15:50:54 <sbp> ‘The claim that they put all their property into a common stock is perhaps only a later inference from certain Pythagorean maxims and practices.[49] On the other hand, it seems certain that there were many women among the adherents of Pythagoras.[50]’
15:51:00 <sbp> — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras
15:51:05 <sbp> why “On the other hand”?
15:58:04 <nsh> because obviously communism entails equal rights for wemens
15:58:07 <nsh> meh
15:58:18 * nsh entertaining manling visitor
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15:59:54 <Monty> hi libby_
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16:29:39 <sbp> [bjoern]: src pls
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17:17:04 <[bjoern]> Might stop snowing in a day or so here
17:17:22 <[bjoern]> lisppaste2: url?
17:17:23 <lisppaste2> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/swhack and enter your paste.
17:18:00 <lisppaste2> [bjoern] pasted "json html hax" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92867
17:18:07 <[bjoern]> is like totally simple
17:20:09 <sbp> OH CRAP IT'S RECURSIVE CRAP IT'S RECURSIVE IT'S RECURSIVE RECURSIVE
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17:20:46 <[bjoern]> I could make it iterative with a little stack!
17:25:58 <sbp> OH CRAP IT'S ITERATIVE BREAK
17:27:04 <[bjoern]> I have nothing to shout back right now.
17:30:39 <sbp> did you at least enjoy the decade so far?
17:30:49 <[bjoern]> No.
17:31:01 <[bjoern]> But I am full of hope for the rest of it!
17:31:24 <sbp> I see
17:31:34 <sbp> so your New Year's resolution can be "must be a pessimist"
17:31:39 <sbp> "unlike last year"
17:32:21 <[bjoern]> No, that does not sound sufficiently depressing.
17:32:55 <[bjoern]> Even "Next year I'll enjoy nslater's videos" would not.
17:33:09 <sbp> hehe
17:33:35 <sbp> just think, next year we might invent some radical new emoticons
17:33:41 <sbp> wouldn't that make it worth it
17:33:58 <sbp> I'm thinking something involving ampersands and cuneiform
17:34:14 <[bjoern]> If we can sneak it into Unicode quoting Ephermal Swhack Scrolls in the application, it might.
17:34:14 <nslater> :(
17:34:17 libby has quit ()
17:34:33 <[bjoern]> Good Evening Mr Nslater, Sir.
17:34:41 <sbp> Ephermal: Ephemeral + Infernal?
17:34:44 <nslater> no then
17:34:46 <nslater> now then
17:34:47 <[bjoern]> We had that discussion.
17:34:59 <sbp> NSLAToR
17:35:03 <nslater> NSLAYOR
17:35:14 <sbp> o
17:35:16 <nslater> nslayer
17:35:29 <sbp> I quite like ns-later
17:35:39 <sbp> let's put off all namespace discussions until tomorrow
17:35:45 <nslater> nu
17:35:49 <sbp> nuslater
17:35:57 <nslater> nsluter
17:36:14 <[bjoern]> .leo slute
17:36:15 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=slute
17:36:24 <[bjoern]> .leo Lunte
17:36:25 <phenny> die Lunte = fuse also: fuze, match - pl. matches, roving (tech.), slub, slubbing
17:36:26 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Lunte
17:36:32 <sbp> next year, some technology may work for something
17:36:36 <[bjoern]> .gc "Die allerdicksten Lunten"
17:36:36 <phenny> "Die allerdicksten Lunten": 0
17:36:41 <sbp> but I doubt it
17:36:48 <nslater> no! it will break my first maxim
17:36:58 <nslater> which is unpossible
17:36:59 <[bjoern]> No Metalvotze videos, no metalvotze quotes, despite it being the Winnerdemo.
17:37:16 <[bjoern]> How about we break some of your second principles?
17:37:19 <sbp> your first maxim, may I remind you, is to never drive an Aston without a cumberbund
17:37:32 <[bjoern]> Unless she's blonde.
17:37:37 <sbp> yeah
17:37:48 <nslater> hmm, thats more of an outlook than a maxim
17:37:51 <nslater> but touche, nevertheless
17:37:52 <sbp> .leo allerdicksten
17:37:53 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=allerdicksten
17:38:25 <[bjoern]> aller- superlative, dick is
17:38:27 <[bjoern]> .leo dick
17:38:30 <phenny> dick (vulg.) = der Schwanz (vulg.) - Penis
17:38:31 <phenny> dick = bulky a., corpulent a., fat a., gross a., plump a.
17:38:31 <phenny> dick auftragen = to pile it on (coll.)
17:38:32 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=dick
17:38:38 <sbp> THE SCHWANZ
17:38:51 <sbp> .gc dickschawnz
17:38:51 <phenny> dickschawnz: 0
17:38:53 <sbp> .gc dickschwanz
17:38:54 <phenny> dickschwanz: 454
17:38:56 <[bjoern]> Actually there is a en de spaceballs thing there
17:38:57 <sbp> AW YEAH
17:39:03 <sbp> I'm going offline in a while
17:39:08 <sbp> I should have downloaded wikipedia
17:39:11 <sbp> to read offline
17:39:16 <[bjoern]> The Swartz is called the Saft in the german original.
17:39:23 <[bjoern]> I have downloaded wikipedia
17:39:26 <[bjoern]> with full history
17:39:30 <sbp> .leo Säft
17:39:31 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=S%C3%A4ft
17:39:39 <[bjoern]> 1.1 TB (compresses to 6.6 GB)
17:39:40 <sbp> I keep thinking there ought to be a Säft
17:39:47 <sbp> not too bad I suppose
17:39:47 <[bjoern]> There are Säfte.
17:39:52 <[bjoern]> .leo Säfte
17:39:53 <sbp> .leo Säfte
17:39:53 <phenny> der Saft - Pl. die Säfte = juice
17:39:54 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=S%C3%A4fte
17:39:55 <phenny> der Saft - Pl. die Säfte = juice
17:39:55 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=S%C3%A4fte
17:39:58 <sbp> oh yeah, I remember you telling me that before
17:40:03 <[bjoern]> Like most things.
17:40:08 <sbp> now I just need to remember all this better, yeah
17:40:30 <sbp> so you'd just need the compressed version and a really good unsequential decompressor
17:40:39 <[bjoern]> They invented computer aided memory once, but then forgot to share it.
17:40:52 <sbp> I wonder how big it would be if you compressed each article individually?
17:41:01 <[bjoern]> it compresses so well because they store the full article contents for each and every revision
17:41:13 <sbp> oh, well I don't want that
17:41:17 <sbp> just the latest ones
17:41:24 <[bjoern]> Well that's small
17:41:34 <[bjoern]> compresses to dvd size, even the en version
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17:41:45 <sbp> see, I should have downloaded it
17:42:21 <[bjoern]> 5.4 GB with puny bzip2
17:42:30 <[bjoern]> so, 7z will dvdize it.
17:42:47 <sbp> but that's all as one chunk right?
17:42:55 <[bjoern]> right
17:42:55 <sbp> I still think individual articles would be better
17:43:02 <sbp> beacuse then you can look them up really fast
17:43:07 <[bjoern]> there are also html dumps as tar.7z or something
17:43:29 <sbp> do you think we'll see a finished HTML 5 next year?
17:43:39 <[bjoern]> No.
17:43:43 <sbp> good
17:43:52 <sbp> that's one thing to look forward to then, at least
17:44:01 <[bjoern]> Low standards, I like it.
17:44:52 <sbp> what do you think the first political scandal of the year will be?
17:45:21 <[bjoern]> Of what magnitude?
17:45:39 <sbp> 5th
17:45:50 <[bjoern]> Wikipedia has no List of upcoming events.
17:46:23 <[bjoern]> The "heroeswiki" has a Portal:Future Events.
17:46:52 <[bjoern]> Expect explosion followed by outbreak and ultimately exposure.
17:49:36 <sbp> I have a very bad habit of putting my CDs back in the wrong cases
17:49:51 <sbp> a list of upcoming scandals would be pretty useful
17:49:58 * [bjoern] put his cds on dvds and the dvds on a hd
17:50:11 <sbp> you know how TV weekly things have spoilers for the upcoming week?
17:50:16 <sbp> newspapers would become like that
17:50:53 <sbp> anyway, I went to get this CD so that I could put it on my HD
17:50:59 <sbp> I'm skipping the DVD step for some reason
17:51:20 <[bjoern]> Tend to think telling what won't happen is often the greater spoiler.
17:51:30 <sbp> hehe
17:51:54 <sbp> "PRESIDENT BUSH WILL NOT COME OUT OF THE CLOSET"
17:52:02 <sbp> "(because he cannot find the key)"
17:52:56 <[bjoern]> Dick goes hunting with George.
17:53:11 <sbp> WHICH ONE WILL END UP SHOT?
17:53:18 <sbp> FIND OUT AFTER A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR
17:53:37 <sbp> Metrograde Pellet Shot, it's great for your everyday shotgun requirements!
17:53:52 <[bjoern]> Buy their stuff, we've got their stocks!
17:54:06 <[bjoern]> Both of them!
17:54:18 <sbp> ONE DISC BURNT
17:54:20 <sbp> TWO TO GO
17:54:25 <sbp> and I've got about 13 minutes
17:54:46 <[bjoern]> You remind me of being hungry.
17:55:02 <nsh> WHAT ARE YOU TEH BURNS?
17:55:03 <sbp> yeah, I'm going out to food
17:55:09 <nsh> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hyT8t_BQgK6vK8VlJuIjO8OrzmMg
17:55:14 <sbp> then whether I come back depends how much food I eat
17:55:15 <nsh> SHUP
17:55:16 <nsh> READ THAT
17:55:23 <nsh> WE GET £1MILLIONS
17:55:34 <nsh> SWHACKFUNDS FOR STUPID SOCIAL POLICY WEBSITE
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17:55:53 <sbp> harness the wisdom of voters?
17:56:15 <nsh> like i said, it's stupid
17:56:18 <sbp> okay, let's do that. meanwhile we'll also make a site that harnesses the integrity of politicians
17:56:19 <nsh> we just have to out-stupid them
17:56:24 <nsh> and they give us THECASHMONEYS
17:56:28 <nsh> hahaha
17:56:48 *** nsh changed the topic to: "<sbp> harness the wisdom of voters? | <nsh> like i said, it's stupid | <sbp> okay, let's do that. meanwhile we'll also make a site that harnesses the integrity of politicians"
17:57:02 <nsh> (i still want the money)
17:57:05 <sbp> same
17:57:09 <nsh> cool
17:57:15 <nsh> then we are agreed
17:57:20 <nsh> (STEALTHY NOD)
17:57:37 <nsh> (SECRET TWIST OF WRISTWATCH FACE)
17:57:41 <sbp> though this article is actually quite informational
17:57:44 <[bjoern]> I've completed setting up the capaciglomerators for integretiy harnaszzation.
17:57:49 <sbp> this is an idea from the Shadow culture secretary
17:57:57 <sbp> so I predict that next year will be a bad year for culture
17:58:03 <sbp> my safest prediction yet!
17:58:28 <[bjoern]> We should have a Federal Shadow Culture Dickhead, too.
17:58:40 <nsh> we can export you one
17:58:44 <sbp> SCHWANZKOPF
17:58:52 <sbp> DER DICKSCHWANZKOPF
17:58:55 <nsh> GOD KNOWS IT WOULD HELP OUR TRADE DEFICIT
17:59:01 <[bjoern]> bet yours is used.
17:59:26 <nsh> yeah, it only partially inflates
17:59:36 <sbp> TWO/THREE
17:59:44 <nsh> but it has a nice lingering smell of consternation
17:59:44 <sbp> I SUSPECT 6 MINUTES REMAINING
17:59:58 <nsh> lol
17:59:59 <nsh> "Mr Hunt said: "Conservatives believe that the collective wisdom of the British people is much greater than that of a bunch of politicians or so-called experts.
18:00:00 <nsh> And new technology now allows us to harness that wisdom like never before."
18:00:16 <nsh> perhaps that's because they hang around with conservatives a lot
18:00:45 <[bjoern]> they want to con-serve.
18:00:56 <sbp> you know what would be great
18:01:02 <[bjoern]> Yes.
18:01:07 <sbp> is if Conservatives were just a bunch of conserves fanatics
18:01:08 <nsh> the tory party: holding up the bell-curve since 1678
18:01:21 <sbp> rambling on about appleberry strutton chum-chutney
18:01:26 <nsh> lol
18:01:32 <nsh> ++
18:01:41 * [bjoern] sees sbp is heavily invested in can opener stocks.
18:01:54 <sbp> thought you said storks for a moment there
18:02:02 <nsh> STORKSSTORKSTORKS
18:02:03 <sbp> think we'll have any little storklings of our own next year?
18:02:16 <[bjoern]> Yes, that's your favourite brand of openers.
18:02:47 <sbp> STORK BRAND HYDROPLASTIC CHUM-CHUTNEY METALLOJAR OPENERS™
18:03:43 <sbp> DONE AWW YEAH
18:03:44 <[bjoern]> Have fun fooding.
18:03:46 <sbp> two minutes to spare
18:04:15 <sbp> I will, I'll just imagine you guys starving
18:04:21 <sbp> and how I'm eating for the whole Swhack clan
18:04:38 <[bjoern]> I will initiate timely countermeasures.
18:04:50 <sbp> note how I'm using my two precious minutes on Swhack
18:04:54 <sbp> there's only one precious minute now
18:05:47 <[bjoern]> Cut in half.
18:05:48 <sbp> ZERO MINUTEN. GUTEN BYE. FOODTIEMS. YOU HAS A LUL FOR ME IF I NOT BACK AT MIDNIGHT DONG
18:06:00 <[bjoern]> GUTEN BYE TO YOU AUCH.
18:06:05 <sbp> ++
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18:51:03 <[bjoern]> At the April 23 meeting around 0420 hours the Swhack Council resolved that there is consensus the Mighty Wonderrealm of Swhackistan will not bow to the calendar replacement demands of the pint and paper industries and instead recycle the 2009 calendars in the coming (same) year. Please heed and comport and withtract any counterannouncement to the sametrary.
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19:31:20 <[bjoern]> .gc "Cheats have failed. Fire all weapons!"
19:31:21 <phenny> "Cheats have failed. Fire all weapons!": 0
19:32:01 <[bjoern]> .gc "Sheets to maximum!"
19:32:01 <phenny> "Sheets to maximum!": 7
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20:53:31 <Monty> welcome, JibberJim
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20:55:26 <Monty> lo Xanthor|aw
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21:03:35 <Monty> But what does scottrageous have to do with the price of fish?
21:04:24 <scottrageous> not a dang thang
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22:04:50 <[bjoern]> .u hor ell
22:04:50 <phenny> U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (…)
22:04:50 <phenny> U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS (…)
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22:13:22 <[bjoern]> Monty?
22:13:25 <Monty> I reckon rhinos + payback = fastest dog turds?
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23:45:58 <sbp> yo
23:47:44 <sbp> .tock
23:47:46 <phenny> "Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:47:46 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil
23:47:49 <sbp> STILL 2009
23:51:43 <sbp> nslater: Wao: cool
23:55:33 <sbp> .tock
23:55:34 <phenny> "Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:55:34 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil
23:58:22 <sbp> you know, in the old day they used to celebrate the new year on Lady Day
23:58:24 <sbp> 25th March
23:58:37 <sbp> .wik New Year's Day
23:58:38 <phenny> "New Year's Day is the first day of the new year." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Day
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23:59:29 <Monty> bah, it's shepazu again
23:59:29 <sbp> “ Probably observed on March 1 in the old Roman Calendar, New Year's Day was fixed on January 1 by the period of the Late Republic. Some have suggested this occurred in 153 BC, when it was stipulated that the two annual consuls (after whose names the years were identified) entered into office on that day, though no consensus exists on the matter.”
23:59:39 <sbp> .tock
23:59:40 <phenny> "Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:59:40 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil
23:59:50 <sbp> .tock
23:59:52 <phenny> "Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:59:51 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil
23:59:59 <sbp> .tock
23:59:59 <phenny> "Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:59:59 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil